Transfers rumours

[Big Ewis]

tbf, with Dan Carter, you don't just get a player, you get someone that can draw crowds and maybe even create long-term fans. I suspect whoever signs him will have slightly higher attendances when Carter makes his first starts. Should draw back a tiny bit of the money they spend on him.

Still an outrageous amount to be spending that almost certainly isn't worth it.

yes that's what I meant in my post in part. And he *most certainly* isn't worth all that.

I think it's very similar to Wilkinson at the end of his career at Toulon, still good (very good on occasion) but his worth was probably more off the pitch with advertising and exposure globally.

Yeah. Remember our discussion some months ago about Wilko or Sexton not being worth all they get ? I would bring up names like Trinh-Duc or Urdapilleta as being too ridiculously lower on the salary table in terms of genuine worth. Wilkinson had all the qualities we knew him to have, that's not at discussion; but he *was* clearly overpaid, and that's because of his mystique. A guy like FTD has no "mystique", if only that everyone on the planet who knows him feels he should be wearing country colors but that has nothing to do with how much he's being paid in the Top 14. It's just the way the business works: reputation, alone, can mean a substantial, hefty difference. Heck some businesses work off reputation and prestige implications *alone* !!
The 'brand name' effect. There's a little white checkmark on my shoe so it's worth 10x this other perfectly fine shoe. That's just a basic reality of "the market" in its most global, general acceptation.

 

[tituslechmakus]

yes that's what I meant in my post in part. And he *most certainly* isn't worth all that.



Yeah. Remember our discussion some months ago about Wilko or Sexton not being worth all they get ? I would bring up names like Trinh-Duc or Urdapilleta as being too ridiculously lower on the salary table in terms of genuine worth. Wilkinson had all the qualities we knew him to have, that's not at discussion; but he *was* clearly overpaid, and that's because of his mystique. A guy like FTD has no "mystique", if only that everyone on the planet who knows him feels he should be wearing country colors but that has nothing to do with how much he's being paid in the Top 14. It's just the way the business works: reputation, alone, can mean a substantial, hefty difference. Heck some businesses work off reputation and prestige implications *alone* !!
The 'brand name' effect. There's a little white checkmark on my shoe so it's worth 10x this other perfectly fine shoe. That's just a basic reality of "the market" in its most global, general acceptation.

Well Sexton is overpaid to me. Not Wilko ! See what he did in Toulon ! He did not usurpate his "legend" ***le. And if you want a legend, you have to pay.

 

[TheSaffycen]

yes that's what I meant in my post in part. And he *most certainly* isn't worth all that.



Yeah. Remember our discussion some months ago about Wilko or Sexton not being worth all they get ? I would bring up names like Trinh-Duc or Urdapilleta as being too ridiculously lower on the salary table in terms of genuine worth. Wilkinson had all the qualities we knew him to have, that's not at discussion; but he *was* clearly overpaid, and that's because of his mystique. A guy like FTD has no "mystique", if only that everyone on the planet who knows him feels he should be wearing country colors but that has nothing to do with how much he's being paid in the Top 14. It's just the way the business works: reputation, alone, can mean a substantial, hefty difference. Heck some businesses work off reputation and prestige implications *alone* !!
The 'brand name' effect. There's a little white checkmark on my shoe so it's worth 10x this other perfectly fine shoe. That's just a basic reality of "the market" in its most global, general acceptation.

Also signing a player like Wilkinson or Carter makes other players want to go to racing/Toulon. No offence to Trinh Duc but I don't think that someone like Genia or a big SH player would want to go to France because he is playing there. That isn't anything against Trinh-Duc's actual ability because (before injury) he was world class and playing ahead of Wilko or Carter recently, but if i was Kieran Read if i saw big names wanting to go to these clubs it would incentify to go there more than Trinh Duc/Wisniewski.

 

[Big Ewis]

Well Sexton is overpaid to me. Not Wilko ! See what he did in Toulon ! He did not usurpate his "legend" ***le. And if you want a legend, you have to pay.

you say "he", I say he and Tillous-Bordes and Giteau. His role was fairly diminutive and extremely select towards the end, and Toulon had a perfect play-making triangle in those three mentioned. But a guy like Trinh-Duc does it all, all by himself for his team, just look at Montpellier now with him out they went from winning IN CLERMONT to being the joke of the French league.

Wilko is one of my favorite players, and one of the greatest ever. No doubt. But don't give into the "big brand" effect, watch the matches. He wasn't worth all that, is all I'm saying.
56k â'¬ for Wilko, top of the league. Trinh-Duc not even in the top 10. :mellow:

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Also signing a player like Wilkinson or Carter makes other players want to go to racing/Toulon. No offence to Trinh Duc but I don't think that someone like Genia or a big SH player would want to go to France because he is playing there. That isn't anything against Trinh-Duc's actual ability because (before injury) he was world class and playing ahead of Wilko or Carter recently, but if i was Kieran Read if i saw big names wanting to go to these clubs it would incentify to go there more than Trinh Duc/Wisniewski.

indeed. No "mystique" or "big brand effect" surrounding FTD. No discussion.

 

[j'nuh]

Unless this is a re-telling of the Robin Davey rumour, it does look like there are legs in the story that Priestland is moving to Bath after all.

Seems like it is a new development, since it also says that Jake Ball looks likely to sign a dual contract.

http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Rhys-Priestland-Bath-s-sights-mdash-Jake-Ball-pen/story-25716369-detail/story.html

 

[nickdnz]

Pfffft, is Carter worth it? He tears his Achilles tendon after only a handful of matches at the beginning of the ***le, Perpignan still win the ***le, his impact is such :lol:.

On a more serious note you'll only really see if DC is worth it or not next year. His body has certainly taken a beating - as had Wilkinsons. There is no doubt on form Carter is every bit as good if not a reasonable amount better. It really just comes down to if his body can last a few more seasons. Racing Metro still had Andrew Mehrtens while he was 28 or so (although there is little chance he was on THAT kind of money) - so they do like their legendary fly halves.

The reality is that he is going to be going somewhere after 2015, so whoever puts in the most competitive offer is in with the best shot.

indeed. No "mystique" or "big brand effect" surrounding FTD. No discussion.

Nope. Requires 'accomplishing' things to get that mystique and big brand.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Gats...!

Give him a bloody DC!

 

[Every Time Ref]

I can't pretend to be able to comment on the business side, but rugby-wise signing Dan Carter seems to be an enormous risk given that decent form and fitness are far from guaranteed. I know people will point out that Wilkinson was seen as a huge risk and worked out like a dream, but this proves nothing. Wilkinson was a risk; so is Carter. It does not rationally follow that the outcome is then necessarily the same. It's a statistical fallacy to assume otherwise.

There will be any number of different factors affecting the chances of Wilkinson and Carter respectively being a success, and they will vary in each case. Who knows which factors turned out to be the key ones in Wilko's case, and which will be key in Carter's? As with many things in life and sport, it might well be that the single biggest factor affecting the two is our old friend Pure Dumb Luck - would you want to gamble €1.8m on that? Anything can happen, look what happened to the last French team to sign Dan Carter! And there's no insurance against loss of form to bail you out.

 

[nickdnz]

ETR - this is the same club that made Chabal the highest paid rugby player in the world not long ago. 1.8m is not going to break their bank.

P.S - the last French team to sign Daniel Carter went on to the the Top 14 that year...not that Carter had a heck of a lot to do with it.

 

[TheSaffycen]

ETR - this is the same club that made Chabal the highest paid rugby player in the world not long ago. 1.8m is not going to break their bank.

P.S - the last French team to sign Daniel Carter went on to the the Top 14 that year...not that Carter had a heck of a lot to do with it.

The money isn't a problem as such, but the amount of money it takes up in the budget means money can't be spent else where in the squad.

True - but he's earning less than for example Wilkinson and Hayman were on collectively. So it it may be a case that they pay for one world class player what Toulon did two, I think it's disingenuous to claim that it will break the salary cap. The salary cap has been extended to €10m correct? So the extension probably keeps RM92 below the cap anyway..

 

[j'nuh]

Gats...!

Give him a bloody DC!

Bath have now been fairly seriously linked with Vermeulen/Morgan, Genia/Matawalu, Folau and Priestland.

On top of the fact that you already have a squad on the up (methinks that there will be a lot of salary bumpers at the end of this year on the back of the squad's performances).

do you even salary cap?

I presume some of them must have dropped out...

 

[Every Time Ref]

ETR - this is the same club that made Chabal the highest paid rugby player in the world not long ago. 1.8m is not going to break their bank.

Yes it's true that they can afford that amount of money, that doesn't necessarily mean it is a good idea to spend it. They can afford to spend €1.8m on me, doesn't mean it would be a good idea to do so!

P.S - the last French team to sign Daniel Carter went on to the the Top 14 that year...not that Carter had a heck of a lot to do with it.

Sorry, poorly expressed - what I really meant to say was "look at what happened to Dan Carter the last time he signed for a French team".

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Bath have now been fairly seriously linked with Vermeulen/Morgan, Genia/Matawalu, Folau and Priestland.

On top of the fact that you already have a squad on the up (methinks that there will be a lot of salary bumpers at the end of this year on the back of the squad's performances).

do you even salary cap?

I presume some of them must have dropped out...

All above board man, they're all so excited about the the rich history available to them in the historic Roman spa town, and the privilege of playing on charitable trust-owned land, that they're willing to take major pay cuts to make the dream a reality.

 

[TheSaffycen]

The money isn't a problem as such, but the amount of money it takes up in the budget means money can't be spent else where in the squad.

True - but he's earning less than for example Wilkinson and Hayman were on collectively. So it it may be a case that they pay for one world class player what Toulon did two, I think it's disingenuous to claim that it will break the salary cap. The salary cap has been extended to €10m correct? So the extension probably keeps RM92 below the cap anyway..

It all depends on how close they are to the cap now though. The Racing owner/president said that it would be hard for anyone to sign him and not go over. Also get out of my post !!!

 

[Irishkid]

Also linked with the DOR of Irish is Tom Coventry and Dave Rennie

 

[ratsapprentice]

AAC, Sekope Kepu and Jean-Marcellin Buttin: --> UBB

Talks (not actual signing) confirmed by the club.

 

[munstermuffin]

Bath have now been fairly seriously linked with Vermeulen/Morgan, Genia/Matawalu, Folau and Priestland.

On top of the fact that you already have a squad on the up (methinks that there will be a lot of salary bumpers at the end of this year on the back of the squad's performances).

do you even salary cap?

I presume some of them must have dropped out...

Out of them I can't see Folau coming near Europe he will leave Union if anything. And they don't need him really. Priestland has gone back and if he came it'd be a low wage as cover for Ford. Certainly won't be a marquee player. The other 2 areas 8 and 9. Genia would be a marquee but the rest I think would be on a good wage that'd be in the cap

 

[Tony Manx]

I can't pretend to be able to comment on the business side, but rugby-wise signing Dan Carter seems to be an enormous risk given that decent form and fitness are far from guaranteed. I know people will point out that Wilkinson was seen as a huge risk and worked out like a dream, but this proves nothing. Wilkinson was a risk; so is Carter. It does not rationally follow that the outcome is then necessarily the same. It's a statistical fallacy to assume otherwise.

There will be any number of different factors affecting the chances of Wilkinson and Carter respectively being a success, and they will vary in each case. Who knows which factors turned out to be the key ones in Wilko's case, and which will be key in Carter's? As with many things in life and sport, it might well be that the single biggest factor affecting the two is our old friend Pure Dumb Luck - would you want to gamble â'¬1.8m on that? Anything can happen, look what happened to the last French team to sign Dan Carter! And there's no insurance against loss of form to bail you out.

The Top 14 is an infinitely different place to where it was when Wilko first went to Toulon and he was the catalyst to bring the stars there and maybe even the biggest of them all .......Laporte who is solely responsible turning them from a bunch of stars into a star spangled team!!

Carter or JW cannot make the same impact now as JW did then!

BE you are right about the latter two seasons of JW when he was not a necessity and more an inspirational selection. But prior to that he was the glue that bound the backs together and Giteau would admit that not only did he go to RCT because JW was there, but JW brought him on as a player even though he was pretty darn good when he joined!!

 

[Chistera]

Out of them I can't see Folau coming near Europe he will leave Union if anything. And they don't need him really. Priestland has gone back and if he came it'd be a low wage as cover for Ford. Certainly won't be a marquee player. The other 2 areas 8 and 9. Genia would be a marquee but the rest I think would be on a good wage that'd be in the cap

Apparently Genia recently changed his mind and would favour a move to Stade Français (http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Genia-au-stade-francais-oui-mais/522457), would prove another failure for Bath but apparently the 2 clubs are ready to fight it out.
The exodus goes on, from the South to North hemisphere, and Folau could be next in line. He said to the press that one of the main reasons he swapped to union rugby was because of the opportunities to play all around the world, most especially in Europe.

 

[nickdnz]

The Top 14 is an infinitely different place to where it was when Wilko first went to Toulon and he was the catalyst to bring the stars there and maybe even the biggest of them all .......Laporte who is solely responsible turning them from a bunch of stars into a star spangled team!!

Carter or JW cannot make the same impact now as JW did then!

BE you are right about the latter two seasons of JW when he was not a necessity and more an inspirational selection. But prior to that he was the glue that bound the backs together and Giteau would admit that not only did he go to RCT because JW was there, but JW brought him on as a player even though he was pretty darn good when he joined!!

Ohh sure. Before Wilkinson came along they were struggling to lure talent with massive amount of money. They had to use relative unknowns like Tana Umaga, George Gregan, Sonny Bill Williams, Victor Matfield, Andrew Mehrtens, Anton Oliver, Jerry Collins etc

 

[canadafan]

No rumors involving Canucks? :wall::wah:

Have heard that Buydens might be inline to be a medical joker, but nothing more.