Toulon Not Releasing Wilkinson For England Camp

[munstermuffin]

But ok I understand the Irish set up as it easily managed but in England the player pool is much bigger and the national team should be picked on form like Ashton and Foden eventually got in to the team but in my opinion they got in about 9 months after they shouldve been in like.

 

[Teh Mite]

The difference is though due to the domestic setup; The Irish setup works as a club - > province - > International system, with none interfering with each others plans or setup. In England however, the self contained club league feeds directly to the national squad, but no concession is made for competitive club fixtures being played at the same time as international training or test matches.

So while the Irish provinces are happy for their players to join up with the International team, in England the clubs can find themselves losing key players for important matches because they're only bench-warming for England (or worse, simply travelling as "backup" players). After professionalism kicked in and relegation suddenly meant more then just playing against a different roster of teams instead potentially meaning the club went under (see: Orrell Rugby), or the difference between a championship or mid-table obscurity, clubs and fans alike didn't like the distainful attitude displayed by union towards them. This began the club vs country row and also why several clubs began to rely on imports instead of producing English players. The Clubs didn't like the idea of having players who the union could effectively ban them from using more then 15 times a season.

The Union, being the self-serving wankers that they are, wanted central contracts on players who they don't pay the wages of while the clubs told them to f-off. Eventually the EPS agreement was made so the Union pay a lump sum to be distributed between the premier-rugby clubs regardless of how many players they provided. This had 2 major faults however;

1. If a club provided 6 England players in one matchday squad (they could even provide all 22), they would still only receive the same amount as a club who provide none.
2. The loopholes in the system mean that any player who is injured can be replaced at a moments notice with anyone.

What effectively happened is the Union now pays less to the clubs for the EPS then they would for the centrally contracted players, but they now have more control and selection then ever before. The clubs and the regular season-ticket purchacing fans are the ones who were screwed.

This is why we've seen over the past few years Northampton become the reject-All Blacks, Saracens become the reject Springboks, LI become the reject-Fijians etc.

 

[munstermuffin]

If that the case so for clubs it smarter to bring through few English player but bring in plenty of SH players and also maybe raid ireland because ie. G. Murphy always stays with Leicester unless it a match and the IRFU accept this. We can't really slag off Saracens now and well these Chairmen of clubs make their money in premiership not with RFU. Only worry this must have for England is it may filter some talent from stepping up

 

[Teh Mite]

The Saracens model is slightly different, as that is the big South African franchise holders becoming the majority stakeholders in the club and using it as an offshore development territory for their S15 provinces, Sarries being the eventual 'victims' of their repeated attempts to buy out and do this at other clubs previously (notably Northampton and Newcastle). Note that unlike Baths new sugar daddy, the Sarri-arfies haven't provided any new facilities etc, nor have they set out new long-term plans.

A slightly different route to market, but essentially the same cause and effect as they saw the opportunity due to the umpteen loopholes in the system combined with profit-driven share-holders looking for an edge. In Sarries case however, once Eddie Griffiths gets a better money offer the behave like a spoilt brat elsewhere, Sarries will be dropped like a stone with the pants around their ankles without the structure to maintain the current setup so they're likely to find times difficult there on in. They simply don't have the fanbase to sustain a falldown once the investments run out.

Ironically, this'll make the whole system come around a complete 360 as they'll need the RFU to bail them out, reinforcing the stance of "we run rough shot over the sport".

Ad nausaum repeat.

 

[Seaton]

After reading all of Bullitts posts, I am actually glad Scotland only has 2 'professional club' teams.

Isn't there a board in the RFU that is headed by club directors? Like in football?

 

[munstermuffin]

Like lordhope I agree like in Ireland everything is so smooth and well everyone knows the situation but I never knew it was this messy.