The Lions squad for 2021 prediction

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Tupric isn't a patch on the greatest 7 of all time David Seymour though. Although no 7s are. He once choke holded a bear while scoring 5 tries a minute only using 1 arm.

 

[big ginger 8]

VDF has really picked it up since being dropped for Connors, it's been fair to question his physicality before but not on his current run. That said he's probably not a realistic option for the initial squad at least, there's too much quality around at 7. Will be interesting how he goes against La Rochelle, he's always made loads of tackles with great linespeed and has become more of a consistent turnover threat but it's the venom in his carries recently which show a noted difference.

Two Leinster players who I do think are earning there way into the Lions conversation are Kelleher and Conan. There's certainly a lot less competition at their positions. Both are very impactful players who can give you those big moments others lack the ability to produce.

 

[unrated]

Mike Brown scored multiple tries when playing on the wing vs South Africa - he should be starting there

Mike Brown is the English player i fear most, when i last saw him in an International, it made wonder if he is one of the few players capable of ripping our rush defence wide open. I think players who provide an x factor in attack deserves to be carried defensively.

 

[LIONSxv]

VdF has lost to England three times, his debut in 2016, and the two 2019 games, he played 80 mins each time, he had three quiet to bad games. Itoje has lost to Ireland three times, 2017, 2018 and 2021, he played 80 mins each time, he had three quiet to bad games.

Do you really think VdF has had more bad games than good? He's a grand slam winner, a Heineken Cup winner and has beaten NZ twice.

You've blown your load a bit with the biased comment I think. What I said wasn't at all unreasonable, apart from forgetting to mention Tipuric. Connors had a better 6n than Curry or Tipuric in my opinion, and he only played three games. He should have been Motm in both the Scotland and Italy games but was a victim of wearing the same head gear as Tadhg Beirne, you definitely can't pick Underhill ahead of him with no rugby but equally his injury probably rules him out.

Ultimately I'm happy with as few Leinster/Ireland players touring as possible, I just don't think you've reasoned your opinion very well by dismissing VdF for games he played two years ago.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Its all about opinions. Vdf would do okay imo on a tour to NZ or AUS but would get smashed vs boks.

Id also check Itoje record vs Ireland as he played in England's 4 game streak I believe, Unless you aren't counting the game before the WC

As for your remark Connors having a better tournament than Curry, the stats wouldn't back that up, but again that's your opinion. I like the look of connors though, he seems more abrasive than VDF. A fit dan leavy is better than both

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Its all about opinions. Vdf would do okay imo on a tour to NZ or AUS but would get smashed vs boks.

Id also check Itoje record vs Ireland as he played in England's 4 game streak I believe, Unless you aren't counting the game before the WC

As for your remark Connors having a better tournament than Curry, the stats wouldn't back that up, but again that's your opinion. I like the look of connors though, he seems more abrasive than VDF. A fit dan leavy is better than both

You've clearly barely read what I wrote and are just pushing your agenda.

 

[Jakedood]

You've clearly barely read what I wrote and are just pushing your agenda.

VDF has looked a lot better the last month or so in fairness to him, but I actually thought Curry was one of the few England players with any credit from this 6 Nations, but taking that out I wouldnt say VDF is too small or anything, he looks a little bulkier this year to my untrained eye, but he's been physical and abrasive, and a hard working 7. A quality player
I hesitate to judge him on Heineken cup medals because Leinster are so damn far ahead of everyone else as a team, that I feel Jordi Murphy would look a quality 7 again for them if he went down, there's so much go forward ball in that team its scary
Kelleher could be a left field pick, I'd have pushed this more ahead of LCD (who a lot seem to think is going) if he started a few more games ahead of Herring, as he maybe should have done, given his far higher ceiling
Conan not so much, good player, but yet to truly break into international rugby and I dont think that makes a great fit for a Lions tour. An injury or two though and he's right in the conversation

 

[big ginger 8]

Coaches confirmed. Think Gatland just wanted to be the one with the most hair.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bad form, April 1st was weeks ago

 

[Which Tyler]

Token Scot on the coaching crew, so he doesn't have to pick any Scottish players?

I'm shocked and amazed to see that 4/5 of the coaches come from Wales

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

VDF has looked a lot better the last month or so in fairness to him, but I actually thought Curry was one of the few England players with any credit from this 6 Nations, but taking that out I wouldnt say VDF is too small or anything, he looks a little bulkier this year to my untrained eye, but he's been physical and abrasive, and a hard working 7. A quality player
I hesitate to judge him on Heineken cup medals because Leinster are so damn far ahead of everyone else as a team, that I feel Jordi Murphy would look a quality 7 again for them if he went down, there's so much go forward ball in that team its scary
Kelleher could be a left field pick, I'd have pushed this more ahead of LCD (who a lot seem to think is going) if he started a few more games ahead of Herring, as he maybe should have done, given his far higher ceiling
Conan not so much, good player, but yet to truly break into international rugby and I dont think that makes a great fit for a Lions tour. An injury or two though and he's right in the conversation

I don't disagree but not picking VDF primarily based on Ireland performances from the end of Joe's reign is terrible reasoning, which was the issue I took. I gave the example that you could say the same about Itoje as bad reasoning and then it was needless dick swinging and accusations of bias.

I can't stress enough how little I want form Leinster players to tour so I'm not massively invested at all, I just took exception to a few ridiculously dismissive posts. In the last three tours the stresses of Lions tours has had massive negative impacts on Luke Fitzgerald, Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Robbie Henshaw and Sean O'Brien and I could be forgetting more. I don't think it's done anything positive for Irish rugby because you can add the lad in your avatar who had GOAT potential to the list along with a few others.

 

[Jakedood]

I don't disagree but not picking VDF primarily based on Ireland performances from the end of Joe's reign is terrible reasoning, which was the issue I took. I gave the example that you could say the same about Itoje as bad reasoning and then it was needless dick swinging and accusations of bias.

I can't stress enough how little I want form Leinster players to tour so I'm not massively invested at all, I just took exception to a few ridiculously dismissive posts. In the last three tours the stresses of Lions tours has had massive negative impacts on Luke Fitzgerald, Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Robbie Henshaw and Sean O'Brien and I could be forgetting more. I don't think it's done anything positive for Irish rugby because you can add the lad in your avatar who had GOAT potential to the list along with a few others.

True, but Ferris for me I can always remember on that 09 tour for the wheels. I get what you're saying, and there has been bad luck involved at times, it happens, and I think we may see the players who go managed very closely by IRFU next year. Plus you see players like Furlong in 17, Heaslip across his tours, BOD in 09 & 13, Keith Wood & John Hayes, Henderson even in the '17 tour playing above his usual levels, it can be special for the players and really stand them out for the quality they are. Injuries happen, it's a rough game, but Im also hoping that with the way video refs are now, there'll be less of the kind of dirty ass **** that happens in warmup games, though who knows. Some of the greatest Lions icons are Irish, it can inspire many a generation seeing their players perform on such a grand stage

Agreed on the judging from 2018, players improve all the time. If this team was picked in 2018, it'd be vastly different, i think he'd be a squad player if he did go, but cant argue he's playing well, and if he did go all credit to him in a tough area

Coaching staff is very left field outside of Townsend. On the plus side, a creative attack coach, on the other side, dunno much about the defense coach and forwards coach. Im assuming a few ruled themselves out, you'd imagine the likes of an Edwards and Farrell had been asked, as had maybe a Steve Borthwick who seems a highly intelligent coach, a thinker of the game

I understand your sentiment re the Lions, but to me, as the first time I ever watched rugby being in a french bar in 2001 watching them play Australia, it'll always be the pinnacle.

I also wouldnt be averse in future to a slightly larger squad, even for first few games, just so as not to overwork players by playing high intensity rugby every week, or occasionally every 3/4 days.. that or a longer tour, but the cramped schedule is the thing I'd have most issue with, if the Unions could agree that actually it would then be beneficial to lengthen the tour (without extra matches, maybe some off midday games/weekends coming into the test) and allow the players a month and a half or so off afterwards for a recovery

Now you've got me reminiscing about the glory that was Stephen Ferris, in full flight. Him and O'Brien as a 6 & 7 was just monstrous

 

[big ginger 8]

Token Scot on the coaching crew, so he doesn't have to pick any Scottish players?

I'm shocked and amazed to see that 4/5 of the coaches come from Wales

In fairness Tandy is on the Scottish staff and McBryde is with Leinster but definitely a terrible look. No obvious advocate for English players at all.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Token Scot on the coaching crew, so he doesn't have to pick any Scottish players?

I'm shocked and amazed to see that 4/5 of the coaches come from Wales

But wasn't his first choice coaching staff predominately English?

 

[Jakedood]

But wasn't his first choice coaching staff predominately English?

I'd imagine Farrell was asked, but stayed due to the job with Ireland At the very least. Right call from Farrell, but he's almost certainly asked, he's a cracking defense coach

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'd imagine Farrell was asked, but stayed due to the job with Ireland At the very least. Right call from Farrell, but he's almost certainly asked, he's a cracking defense coach

Farrell and Rowntree and someone else I'm forgetting. It doesn't really stack up saying he's anti English and favours the Welsh when his first choice coaches didn't really include any Welshman but did a lot of Englishman.

 

[Dean Cooperfield-West]

I'm still hoping he brings onboard Mitchell and Robertson. It's a massive risk taking Tandy. Hasn't had long to prove himself and RSA is a difficult team to defend against.

 

[Jakedood]

Farrell and Rowntree and someone else I'm forgetting. It doesn't really stack up saying he's anti English and favours the Welsh when his first choice coaches didn't really include any Welshman.l but a lot of Englishman.

I dont really mind about their nationality, as long as they're the best coaches he could find. Howley was never really the best attack coach at all for the 17 tour so that bugged me more. Defensive principles can be worked on a lot easier than attacking ones, especially for an entirely new team, a strong blitz defense Im guessing will be employed, there will be potential for a lot of dominant tackles, and turnovers
Attack will be more complex, so Im curious, but Townsend is 100% the man for it

 

[Welsh Exile]

Borthwick was the other he wanted wasn't it?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

True, but Ferris for me I can always remember on that 09 tour for the wheels. I get what you're saying, and there has been bad luck involved at times, it happens, and I think we may see the players who go managed very closely by IRFU next year. Plus you see players like Furlong in 17, Heaslip across his tours, BOD in 09 & 13, Keith Wood & John Hayes, Henderson even in the '17 tour playing above his usual levels, it can be special for the players and really stand them out for the quality they are. Injuries happen, it's a rough game, but Im also hoping that with the way video refs are now, there'll be less of the kind of dirty ass **** that happens in warmup games, though who knows. Some of the greatest Lions icons are Irish, it can inspire many a generation seeing their players perform on such a grand stage

Agreed on the judging from 2018, players improve all the time. If this team was picked in 2018, it'd be vastly different, i think he'd be a squad player if he did go, but cant argue he's playing well, and if he did go all credit to him in a tough area

Coaching staff is very left field outside of Townsend. On the plus side, a creative attack coach, on the other side, dunno much about the defense coach and forwards coach. Im assuming a few ruled themselves out, you'd imagine the likes of an Edwards and Farrell had been asked, as had maybe a Steve Borthwick who seems a highly intelligent coach, a thinker of the game

I understand your sentiment re the Lions, but to me, as the first time I ever watched rugby being in a french bar in 2001 watching them play Australia, it'll always be the pinnacle.

I also wouldnt be averse in future to a slightly larger squad, even for first few games, just so as not to overwork players by playing high intensity rugby every week, or occasionally every 3/4 days.. that or a longer tour, but the cramped schedule is the thing I'd have most issue with, if the Unions could agree that actually it would then be beneficial to lengthen the tour (without extra matches, maybe some off midday games/weekends coming into the test) and allow the players a month and a half or so off afterwards for a recovery

Oh yeah I know I'm on the extreme end of a growing minority here so I won't question anyone loving the Lions, although I didn't like BOD saying he rated the Lions over Ireland (I could just about forgive your average Ulster player thinking that way but not being country first leaves a bad taste) when he spent a lot of his Ireland career underachieving.

To me the Lions feels like when Shane Jennings and Leo Cullen were at the Tigers, great to see Leinster/Irish lads doing well but I couldn't really care how the team did. Last time out I wanted the clubs to win but when it came to the tests I was happy to see the Lions put the ABs in their box a little bit.

No obvious advocate for English players at all.

Gatland trying to impress his future employers maybe?

 

[Welsh Exile]

I dont really mind about their nationality, as long as they're the best coaches he could find. Howley was never really the best attack coach at all for the 17 tour so that bugged me more. Defensive principles can be worked on a lot easier than attacking ones, especially for an entirely new team, a strong blitz defense Im guessing will be employed, there will be potential for a lot of dominant tackles, and turnovers
Attack will be more complex, so Im curious, but Townsend is 100% the man for it

Yeah got no problem with that view but it does become a bit tiring reading all of this anti Gatland "he just picks Welsh coaches and players" stuff when in this case with the coaches it's clear his first choices were English.