The Lions squad for 2021 prediction

[Reiser99]

Yeah got no problem with that view but it does become a bit tiring reading all of this anti Gatland "he just picks Welsh coaches and players" stuff when in this case with the coaches it's clear his first choices were English.

Some might spin it then as these are second choice coaches because the first choice said no. I honestly don't care. I enjoy watching the Lions, but I'm not going to lose sleep over whether the right coaches were picked. Whatever the reasons these are the coaches selected so let's see how it goes and give them support.

My only issue around England players is that some who have probably played their way out of Lions contention might end up going on our summer tour further wasting caps on players under-performing, but that's more EJ's decision than Gatland and co.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Some might spin it then as these are second choice coaches because the first choice said no. I honestly don't care. I enjoy watching the Lions, but I'm not going to lose sleep over whether the right coaches were picked. Whatever the reasons these are the coaches selected so let's see how it goes and give them support.

My only issue around England players is that some who have probably played their way out of Lions contention might end up going on our summer tour further wasting caps on players under-performing, but that's more EJ's decision than Gatland and co.

Yeah, I honestly think Gatland will pick the coaches he rates most to get a specific job done. In this case he wanted Farrell, Rowntree and Borthwick but none were available for various reason so now he's gone with who he thinks is next best, they just happen to be Welsh just as Rowntree, Borthwick and Farrell happen to be English.

I hear you on the last paragraph. I'm quite happy for a lot of Welsh to go so we take a development squad out to Argentina in the summer. I think Gatland will be taking a lot of English players though for sure.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yeah got no problem with that view but it does become a bit tiring reading all of this anti Gatland "he just picks Welsh coaches and players" stuff when in this case with the coaches it's clear his first choices were English.

There isn't actually any evidence that his first coaching picks were English though. Only rumours.

While Gatland has had his massive welsh bias he coached Wales so it makes sense. I've always been annoyed at his welsh vs Scotland picks rather than lack of English players.

 

[Welsh Exile]

There isn't actually any evidence that his first coaching picks were English though. Only rumours.

While Gatland has had his massive welsh bias he coached Wales so it makes sense. I've always been annoyed at his welsh vs Scotland picks rather than lack of English players.

You're right but the same names were reported in too many different sources for it to be BS in my opinion. You're right though, we can't know for sure.

 

[Jakedood]

Yeah got no problem with that view but it does become a bit tiring reading all of this anti Gatland "he just picks Welsh coaches and players" stuff when in this case with the coaches it's clear his first choices were English.

I'd imagine this is true that some would have English connections, eg Borthwick and Farrell, but is there a source where this was actually said to be true or are we just guessing?

There is naturally some inherent bias that in a close call, he'll choose coaches he knows well, because you see what they can do day in and day out I'm sure, but Im just glad Howley is out of the equation tbh. Wales had a poor attack under him and he was still picked, at least the other two will be halfway competent

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'd imagine this is true that some would have English connections, eg Borthwick and Farrell, but is there a source where this was actually said to be true or are we just guessing?

There is naturally some inherent bias that in a close call, he'll choose coaches he knows well, because you see what they can do day in and day out I'm sure, but Im just glad Howley is out of the equation tbh. Wales had a poor attack under him and he was still picked, at least the other two will be halfway competent

I think it was picked up by the Times initially then your rags picked up on it as well.

It's just the idea that Gatland sits at home deciding who his coaches are and their nationality in anyway comes into it is laughable to me. Sure, trust as you rightly say, plays a part and how well he knows the coaches or players but nationality? Nah.

 

[Jakedood]

Wouldnt be surprised if a lineout coach was added, we've seen them becoming increasingly popular, especially with ex Second row wizards at that side of the game. POC would be a valuable resource, also probably a good person to have as an intermediate between players and coaches, able to be a part of both groups due to playing with/against a fair few of the touring squad

 

[Oliver Madden]

We're going to get absolutely annihilated with that coaching team. I'm not confident, second choice and out of their depth.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

POC would be a valuable resource, also probably a good person to have as an intermediate between players and coaches, able to be a part of both groups due to playing with/against a fair few of the touring squad

POC would be a great addition, if they can snag him
Gatlands reputation amongst the English/Irish players that have played under him (and the Scottish players snubbed by him) is in the toilet, having a highly respected guy like POC on the staff, who has played under Gatland on a Lions tour as well, would definitely quell that a bit

Plus he's a great coach

 

[ncurd]

POC would be a great addition, if they can snag him
Gatlands reputation amongst the English/Irish players that have played under him (and the Scottish players snubbed by him) is in the toilet, having a highly respected guy like POC on the staff, who has played under Gatland on a Lions tour as well, would definitely quell that a bit

Plus he's a great coach

Yeah but Gatland did take the captaincy (actually TBF in general I'm against captains and coaches serving more than one term, but history has said that's ********) from him and dropped him after the first test.

He's absolutely the kind of guy you should be bringing in, the Lions should have that Ryder Cup vibe to them and its been a long long time since it did (Literally the Geech tours).

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah but Gatland did take the captaincy (actually TBF in general I'm against captains and coaches serving more than one term, but history has said that's ********) from him and dropped him after the first test.

I think you're getting mixed up with POM in 2017 there. Iirc POC barely played in 2012/13, still made the tour and was kept on due to his presence in the squad after injury in the first test.

 

[Welsh Exile]

It's the players on the pitch that are more important anyway. Not to say coaches aren't important obviously but the players wil be good enough to win this series. Scotland's defence was the best in the 6N wasn't it? So Tandy is a good shout. Like I say, though, Lions will win this tour. Will be a walk in the park if Tipuric plays but he won't so it will be a bit more of a struggle.

 

[ncurd]

I think you're getting mixed up with POM in 2017 there. Iirc POC barely played in 2012/13, still made the tour and was kept on due to his presence in the squad after injury in the first test.

Nah POC but I forgot he was injured after the first test not dropped (it hard to tell with team lists under Gatland). Either way he still lost the captaincy for Warburton.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Scotland's defence was the best in the 6N wasn't it?

Nah, Ireland's was marginally better
Ireland/Scotland/France had the same number of tries conceded but it goes Ireland then Scotland then France for points conceded
Surprised that England and Wales conceded the same number of tries, and England only shipped 18 more pts

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Nah POC but I forgot he was injured after the first test not dropped (it hard to tell with team lists under Gatland). Either way he still lost the captaincy for Warburton.

Ok fair enough. It would have been very difficult to justify POC as captain when he hadn't played the 2012 AIs or the 2013 6n to be fair to Gatland though.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

POC was Lions captain in 2009 and would be a great addition as forward's captain. Some unfinished business for him as well.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Nah, Ireland's was marginally better
Ireland/Scotland/France had the same number of tries conceded but it goes Ireland then Scotland then France for points conceded
Surprised that England and Wales conceded the same number of tries, and England only shipped 18 more pts

Ahh, fair enough. I wasn't sure. Tandy still not done a bad job up there though. I'd rather Edwards would go but I don't think the French would be too happy and I'm not sure what his and Gats relationship is like.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think you're getting mixed up with POM in 2017 there. Iirc POC barely played in 2012/13, still made the tour and was kept on due to his presence in the squad after injury in the first test.

Correct POC broke his arm and as a lunatic played on for last few mins. Refused to come off.

 

[munstermuffin]

To be fair on coaching staff it is ok.

Jenkins is there like a kitman.

Townsend well he has done well. As has Tandy.
McBryde is Welsh but his job in Dublin has been excellent.

Farrell wanted to concentrate on Ireland and Edwards would never have been released from France so no point considering them.
POC would add alot especially at lineout against SA. And knows Afikaans from learning it when playing and some of their plays. Add in he would know Rassie well and alot of structures.
But don't think it a factor regardless as he isn't involved.

 

[munstermuffin]

Nah POC but I forgot he was injured after the first test not dropped (it hard to tell with team lists under Gatland). Either way he still lost the captaincy for Warburton.

Was never going to be captain as up until early 2013 he had groin issues that threatened his career. In fairness Gatland always picked him and relied on him when available.