Wales (The Gatland returns thread)

[Welsh Exile]

Good to see Lloyd leaving the player graveyard that is the scarlets. Shame he's going to Cardiff, would've rathered he went to Ospreys but he's better than Sheedy so hopefully he gets the 10 jersey more often than not at Cardiff.

 

[dirty harry]

This is such a sad signing, I had my heart set on Hawkins Coming to Cardiff, that looks off now.

Lloyd is still too wild, doesn't have a kicking boot, isn't capable of controlling games and just coughs up field position for fun.

For all of Sheedys faults, mostly defencive and goal kicking he doesn't half make life easy for the 9 and centres.

Cardiffs try conversion rate when in the 22 has been great this season, and has been the difference between a lot of LBPs last year and a few more wins this year.

I'd prefer to have stuck with Sheedy and De beer next year, saved the money for a tighthead, lock or ball carrier.

 

[Welsh Exile]

This is such a sad signing, I had my heart set on Hawkins Coming to Cardiff, that looks off now.

Lloyd is still too wild, doesn't have a kicking boot, isn't capable of controlling games and just coughs up field position for fun.

For all of Sheedys faults, mostly defencive and goal kicking he doesn't half make life easy for the 9 and centres.

Cardiffs try conversion rate when in the 22 has been great this season, and has been the difference between a lot of LBPs last year and a few more wins this year.

I'd prefer to have stuck with Sheedy and De beer next year, saved the money for a tighthead, lock or ball carrier.

Hawkins should still be coming back to Wales though hopefully. I agree you probably have more pressing concerns (especially when Ben Thomas can cover 10 as well) but from a neutral/wales POV I'm glad he's left scarlets and he's better than Sheedy.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Could Lloyd move back to 15? He was always way better there for Bristol,
No idea why he's landed at 10 - definitely feels like it's something he's demanded rather than where he's best

 

[dirty harry]

Hawkins should still be coming back to Wales though hopefully. I agree you probably have more pressing concerns (especially when Ben Thomas can cover 10 as well) but from a neutral/wales POV I'm glad he's left scarlets and he's better than Sheedy.

Wales yes, Cardiff wouldn't make sense now though, with Sheedy, Lloyd, Thomas. Unless he wanted to focus on 12, Leelo can't play on forever lol.

I still think your underestimating what sheedy is bringing to the team, his crossfield alone has assisted 4 tries this season, he has assisted 9, and we have scored in the 15m channel twice as much this season compared to last. That's a 10s doing. We've also scored of set peice more this season than last (maul not included).

I get he's small, and defensively costing us a bit, but it's hard to slate him too much when sitting in a home tie playoff position currently.

 

[dirty harry]

Could Lloyd move back to 15? He was always way better there for Bristol,
No idea why he's landed at 10 - definitely feels like it's something he's demanded rather than where he's best

Didn't he state he was leaving Bears specifically to nail a q0 position. That's why everyone was stunned when he signed for the only region with a nailed on 10 already lol.

 

[Bluemoon]

Good to see Lloyd leaving the player graveyard that is the scarlets. Shame he's going to Cardiff, would've rathered he went to Ospreys but he's better than Sheedy so hopefully he gets the 10 jersey more often than not at Cardiff.

He's better than Sheedy in an individual running attack maybe, imagine they are both equally bad in defence and kicking %. Sheedy fell apart against the Ospreys and that's been coming for a while. Lloyd was really poor for scarlets at 15 against Cardiff so I don't want him in that position either if he joins. Particularly with Cam and Beetham covering there.

For me, De Beer is much better than Lloyd. I am pretty gutted that Lloyd is our target 10 at the moment and the rumour is that De beer is on the way out.

 

[dirty harry]

He's better than Sheedy in an individual running attack maybe, imagine they are both equally bad in defence and kicking %. Sheedy fell apart against the Ospreys and that's been coming for a while. Lloyd was really poor for scarlets at 15 against Cardiff so I don't want him in that position either if he joins. Particularly with Cam and Beetham covering there.

For me, De Beer is much better than Lloyd. I am pretty gutted that Lloyd is our target 10 at the moment and the rumour is that De beer is on the way out.

Dragons apparently, but I've heard he has an offer from a D2 club also. Wouldn't blame him, he wasn't bad last season, and has been forced to play 2nd fiddle this season, I was hoping he would kick on

 

[Bluemoon]

Dragons apparently, but I've heard he has an offer from a D2 club also. Wouldn't blame him, he wasn't bad last season, and has been forced to play 2nd fiddle this season, I was hoping he would kick on

Yes I've heard that, hoping it isn't true but can't blame him wanting first team rugby. I thought he really stepped up when he had to last season and had potential get better again. Him and Tomas Williams were a good partnership. He has a mean jackal for a small guy. Assume somethings happened behind the scenes as he could have been on the bench a few times and has been missing.

 

[dirty harry]

Yes I've heard that, hoping it isn't true but can't blame him wanting first team rugby. I thought he really stepped up when he had to last season and had potential get better again. Him and Tomas Williams were a good partnership. He has a mean jackal for a small guy. Assume somethings happened behind the scenes as he could have been on the bench a few times and has been missing.

Just blame Dai Young, must be his fault, probably said some naughty words to him despite being gone a year lol.

What a waste, Young is in Bridgend 'scrum coaching' more like teaching the famous idiots how to coach lol. Amazing isn't it, Bridgend were last but one before Young got there to help with the scrum hahaha

 

[dullonien]

So with the squad being picked tomorrow, what would people's 23 be going into the France game? Mine would probably be:

01 Gareth Thomas
02 Elliot Dee
03 Erm, pass! Maybe Henry Thomas?
04 Rhys Davies
05 Teddy Williams
06 Olly Cracknell
07 Jac Morgan (C)
08 Taulupe Faletau

09 Tomos Williams
10 Jarrod Evans / Dan Edwards
11 Josh Hathaway
12 Eddie James
13 Max Llewellyn
14 Josh Adams
15 Tom Rogers

16 Brodie Coughlan
17 Nicky Smith / Kemsley Mathias
18 Keiron Assiratti
19 Dafydd Jenkins
20 Aaron Wainwright / Taine Basham
21 Reuben Morgan Williams
22 Ben Thomas
23 Cam Winnet

Our options in the front row are quite pathetic atm. The fact that Gareth Thomas starts by default is a little sad, as he's quite ordinary by most metrics. Mathias has improved this season, but rarely starts for Scarlets. Nicky Smith failed to really take his second chance in the AI's.

Lake is a huge loss at hooker! Watch Gats select an injured Ellias in the squad now who's cost us on so many occasions with his terrible throwing... There's a few younsters around who look promising, but they kinda blur together, with none really standing out above the others.

The less said about our options at tighthead the better! Dillon Lewis may come into the equation.

I've been impressed with Teddy Williams this season, he's really upped his game, but we need a physical player alongside him, which is why I've gone with Rhys Davies. Rowlands has looked past it recently, whilst Daf Jenkins is not long back from a long layoff and returned to a shower of s**t at Exeter! Fender's red last week really didn't help his chances. Ratti looked powerful when he came on v Newcastle. Freddie Thomas is in with a good shout.

Backrow remains an area of strength, but we need to get the balance right. For me we start with Jac at 7, then I'd bring Faletau back for his experience (not ideal that he sat this weekend out though). Then I think we need some physicality at 6, and Cracknell has really put his hand up. Could have one of many on the bench then, with Reffell, Basham, Plumtree (although his dicsipline needs work), Wainwright, and Macleod all good options.

Only one option at 9 really, but will be interesting who makes the bench. I don't see the point in Rhodri Williams, whilst RMW has been excellent imo.

10, 10, 10. Who the f**k do we play at 10? Jarrod Evans plays second fiddle to Smith at Harlequins (surprise, surprise - was a tall order to dethrone their homegrown poster child!), but he has put in some OK cameos. His issue has always been consistency, and he can't improve that when he's not playing consistently! Dan Evans still has a lot to learn, but he's consistently playing well and having big moments in games. Anscombe is too old now, and too injury prone. Costellow honestly needs time at regional level to regain his confidence.

We suddenly have a lot of options at centre, but I have no idea what our best combo is, and I don't think Gats does either; so I've gone for a pairing with high ceilings in James and Llewellyn. Roberts and even Page could soon be in the reconing at 13, but one is only just back from injury and the other still in nappies. Watkin seems to have stepped up his game recently to be fair, but he's had so many chances and rarely shone at international level. Tompkins, Thomas, and Johnny Williams are all options too. WoL like to big up Wimbush as an option, but not sure he plays much for Exeter!

The back 3 is looking a little ropey atm. Josh Adams will probably be on one wing after looking much better after his rest. I'd like to see Rogers given a run at fullback as he has all the raw attributes to be great, although I still rate Winnett, who's done well for a 21y/o imo, even if he still has big flaws in his game. Dyer has gone backwards for me! Grace needs time (and some luck on the injury front). Hathaway has something, even is his defense can be frail. After that, theres the likes of Mee, Bowen, Murray, and Giles who may be battling it out for one position.

 

[dirty harry]

Yep, we have issues all over the park except for back row and 9 lol let's be honest they are our only lions contenders.

For the record Thomas has been superb this season, against Newxastle he or Watkin would have been my MOTM, they were head and shoulders above.

Hooker is massive, Dee starts by default, Elias prob make the squad, and one of Lloyd or Daniel as bench. Lloyd is he'll of an athlete.

We won't see both at lock, Rowlands club form is still good, he just doesn't bring it to a beaten pack for us. Rowlands and Jenkins probably start, I'd agree William's on the bench.

No chance in he'll Wainright doesn't start, he and Tomos have been our best players in red for 3 seasons, he starts regardless of who's fit, but my be at 6 if we want to rush Falatau in.
Against France I'd go with Wainright at 8, Reffell and Morgan either side.

Tomos starts at 9, Bevannon the bench for his physicality, and delivery. RMW is way off yet.

Anscombe will start if fit, there's no other option. Costello is injured, Lloyd, Thomas, Owen William's are all poor options, I think we might see Edward's on the bench.

Llewellyns playing well, but he mixes centre and wing for Glos, we may see him out wide as a safer option, Watkins has been ospreys best player this season, he and Thomas as a 2nd ball player.

Adam's makes the squad by default, but the first team? Ye maybe, that's sad to say, he's nowhere near sharp. Roger's or Dyer the other wing.
I don't think Dyer has gone backwards, I just think he's now playing in 2 bad teams, beaten up every week instead of 1, and now we only see him in positions of weakness. He's still lightening quick.

Sadly Winnet will play FB, the man(?) With the worst win % in world rugby, only ever winning 1 U20 game, and 3 pro games in 25 odd attempts. Not that it's his fault, he just isn't big enough yet.

I think if we play a solid 15, and a decent game plan we win 1 or maybe 2 games, however our huge issue (outside of front row) is our bench options.

There's literally nothing on the bench to change a game, and everything is a lesser.

Dillon Lewis, Lloyd, William's, Bevan, Lloyd, James, any of the back 3 will offer losing options.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Here we go. Can't even be ****** with this **** anymore.

Backs: Liam Williams, Tom Rogers, Blair Murray, Josh Adams, Josh Hathaway, Ellis Mee, Eddie James, Nick Tompkins, Owen Watkin, Joe Roberts, Ben Thomas, Dan Edwards, Rhodri Williams, Ellis Bevan, Tomos Williams.

Forwards: Kemsley Mathias, Nicky Smith, Gareth Thomas, Henry Thomas, WillGriff John,Keiron Assiratti, Elliot Dee, Evan Lloyd, Sam Parry, Dafydd Jenkins, Will Rowlands, Freddie Thomas, Teddy Williams, Christ Tshiunza, James Botham, Tommy Reffell, Jac Morgan, Taulupe Faletau, Aaron Wainwright.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How's WGJ been called up when he's based in England now and already capped?

Pleased for him, but a little concerned - only one start (basically two, as one was off the bench for over 70mins after injury to a starter) and looked injured on the weekend,
He's been in good form in that little time, though, fair play - really strong vs Racing and part of a solid front row vs Stormers

Pretty funny seeing him and Henry Thomas there

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Jaysus, a lot of names I don't know at all there and Assiratti too who I only know because his name is Assiriatti for God's sake.

Probably more indicitive that the regions are barely worth watching than their actual quality but then the quality of the regions (and all the reasons for that however deep you want to go) is why Wales are where they are.

 

[Welsh Exile]

What is it going with just 2 fly half's again? Sorry, I mean 1 inside center and one kid.

 

[f1point2]

What is it going with just 2 fly half's again? Sorry, I mean 1 inside center and one kid.

Logic left the building long ago. It would be good if Gatland could follow. He did amazingly well in his first stint and for that I'll be forever grateful. Without Sean Edwards by his side, he appears to have completely lost his mojo. He was a disaster for the Chiefs and if any other international coach had his record they would have been sacked long ago.

He may not have the talent available to him that he did a decade ago but the selection at 10 is baffling. I hope Dan Edwards does well but he is our only 10 for the whole of the 6N. Expecting Thomas to play 10 when he doesn't play club rugby there is just ridiculous.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

No Max Llewellyn is pretty mad

 

[BPM]

I can just about understand why Anscombe hasn't been picked but Llewelyn? WTAF? Having a great season and one of few bright spots for Wales over the Autumn. Weird.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I can just about understand why Anscombe hasn't been picked but Llewelyn? WTAF? Having a great season and one of few bright spots for Wales over the Autumn. Weird.

Gats says it's coz we have a lot of 12s and not many 13s. The problem with that is that he's picked Tompkins and Watkin. Ironically the best 12 in the squad is the one he's picked at 10.