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The Leinster thread

  • Thread starter snoopy snoopy dog dog
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They couldn't have afforded that because when contract renewal time comes round for the likes of Healy and Kearney they'd be looking for that kind of money and it would inflate the rest of the players wages.

Not necessarily there is the thing that Sexton is a 10 along with tightheads the highest paid player in the squad. Whatever about that they needed to break 500,000. Sexton felt what they were offering didn't reflect his status.
 
On Bekker - Don't get why you'd bring him in, you've already got your own pet giraffe, although he's probably as good a lineout lock as is out there at the moment. Mindyou, I'm an increasingly big believer in the theory that scrums with big height disparities between the two locks are inherently at risk, and that someone along the lines of Tuohy/Parling (springy jumper, carries, calls lineouts) would be the obvious addition. Can think who does that who's available mind.

Don't think Conway is a big blow. Maybe he'll become a player at Munster, he's got potential, but it's not happening. Van der Merwe is though.
 
Bent was another bad signing stop gap and really pointless whens he gone?
 
Bit harsh to judge him like that in his first season!
 
By the same token, Leo Cullen is now behind Ben Marshall. I think this is just squad rotation. Bent apparently played very well last week.

Being fair to Bent, he did okay in his two cameos for Ireland. For Leinster and Ireland A his performances have been below average mostly but he hasn't cost either team in an important game. Ireland A's loss to England A was a meaningless match where the result didn't matter. The only person Bent let down that day was himself by playing himself out of 6 Nations contention.
 
I've been thinking about how Leinster stand for next season. I've been thinking about how to judge the current squad and I feel the best way to do it is to compare it to what we had in 2011-2012, arguably the best Leinster side and squad.

Tighthead: I'd imagine we're going to lose someone out of our current crop. Even so, we'll still be okay. Ross ppears to be a bit on the wain, but in Furlong and Moore we have two fine prospects. Hagan and Bent should be fine for the league, but I wouldn't like to be starting with them in the European Cup. In terms of the 2012 side which had a younger Mike Ross and the excellent Nathan White, we've gone backwards here.

Hooker: Everyone is staying by the looks of it, except Tom Sexton, who is off to the Rebels. We're well set here, Cronin and Strauss are both excellent, and Aaron Dundon is one of the most underrated players in Irish rugby. As far as I'm concerned we're stonger here than we were two years ago.

Loosehead: Healy is clearly going to be top dog here. I guess we'll be weaker for not having HVDM, although he wasn't great this year in my opinion. That said, capped Springbok props don't grow on trees and if ever there was a man for a tough away game in a bog he was it. It's about time we started trusting Jack McGrath in my mind. Yes, he'll never be as good as Cian Healy, but there are very few loosies who are. The point of the provincial game is to supply IQ players for the national team however, so if he is in any way good enough, he should be given preference over an import. Jack O'Connell will also get a lot of game time.

Lock: Well, at least you can say that we'll have enough of them. The sounds are the Cullen is looking to stay on another year, and Dev has been offered a new deal too by all accounts. Roux is hanging around, Ben Marshall has been offered a senior deal, Mark Flanagan is still floating around, as is Tom Denton, and obviously we're bringing in Mike McCarthy. Damien Browne may be on his way out, but it's no huge loss. I like Browne, he's a tough nut, but he's simply not of the required quality. If Roux can stay fit this season he'll be a serious asset, while McCarthy will be a definite starter. Cullen will probably be used in a role similar to that of Mick O'Driscoll in his last few years at Munster, captaining the second team, but not really a starter unless injuries are an issue. My one worry would be that Roux and McCarthy will probably be our best options, but neither are over 6'5. This may give Toner a lot of game time, or more will be expected out of the back row. In any case, we're probably not as good as we were with Thorne and Cullen, but we'll be a damn sight better off than we were this season.

Blindside Flanker: Spoiled for choice doesn't do it justice. O'Brien is obviously the best of the bunch, but Ruddock, Ryan, Murphy, McLaughlin and a few other younger guys can all play here too. We'll be as strong as ever in this position.

Openside Flanker: See above. Lots of those guys are happy enough in the 7 jersey too. I'd like to see Dom Ryan get a lot of game time here, but I feel it's more likely to either go to Jordi Murphy, or Jennings and O'Brien will share the duty. We're just as good here too.

Number 8: Heaslip, O'Brien and Murphy are our primary options. Auva'a has gone right off the boil. We'll be fine though. Same position as two seasons ago.

Scrumhalf: This is where the team starts to show it's age. Boss and Reddan have been the perfect foil for eachother. One for the tough physical days away, another to speed up the pace and put the opposition on the back foot. No clear starter. However, they're both pushing on into their 30's now. Reddan obviously suffered that horrible injury, but his form had been up and down this season. Boss hadn't reached the heights of previous seasons either. What it means is that it's really time for John Cooney to step up. I think he has what it takes, as does young Luke McGrath behind him. The two are both good enough to play for a team with serious European aspirations, it's just that we may have a few tough years before they're 100% ready. We're weaker here, but we wont stay that way long.

Outhalf: Obviously weaker. Johnny Sexton is still comfortably the best 10 in Europe. There's no getting around the fact that he's a huge, huge loss. In Ian Madigan we have an immensley talented player. Great eye for a gap, good passer, good from the tee, and a solid defender. All that being said, I still have huge doubts about his game management. His kicking for touch simply isn't good enough, and he doesn't really know when to pin the opposition back and when to run at them. A season as starting 10 will no doubt help him iron the creases in his game out, but Leinster will suffer as a result. Jimmy Gopperth may find himself used in the away games in Europe, where an old head who has slogged it out at the bottom end of the premiership for years will be handy. So we're weaker here, but between the two of them we can still be competitive in Europe.

Inside Centre: Much remains to be seen here. Even if D'arcy goes, we'll still be in good shape. McFadden, Fitzgerald, and Eoin O'Malley have all played here in the past, so trusting one of them with the starting jersey shouldn't be too much. They're all good enough. Goodman will provide an experienced back up too. I'm not worried here, I'd have us somewhere around the same level we were at 2 years ago.

Outside Centre: If Brian decides to call it a day it'll be a blow. Macken, O'Malley, McFadden and Fitzgerald would be the replacements, but none are of the same class obviously. Fitz would be my preference, but we'll have to wait and see. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to bringing in a high quality NIQ.

Back Three: Lots of options. The Kearneys, Fitzgerald, McFadden and Nacewa are a high quality 6 to have, all having been capped internationally. That young Byrne lad looks to have something about him too. Hudson will probably get a lot of league time next season. Can't say I'm overly fussed here. We're probably about the same level as 2012.
 
Damien Browne may be on his way out, but it's no huge loss. I like Browne, he's a tough nut, but he's simply not of the required quality.
I'm glad I'm not the only person to have noticed this. Browne is a fine, serviceable player who won't let you down. What does he actually excel at though? Scrummaging but that's about it. He's okay in the lineout, okay at the breakdown, okay at tackling but he's hardly irreplaceable. I've a lot of time for him as a player and hope he secures a contract somewhere but I'd also more than happy for Leinster to push on with McCarthy, Roux and Marshall as their tighthead locks.
 
I'm glad I'm not the only person to have noticed this. Browne is a fine, serviceable player who won't let you down. What does he actually excel at though? Scrummaging but that's about it. He's okay in the lineout, okay at the breakdown, okay at tackling but he's hardly irreplaceable. I've a lot of time for him as a player and hope he secures a contract somewhere but I'd also more than happy for Leinster to push on with McCarthy, Roux and Marshall as their tighthead locks.


Yeah, I'd like to see Browne get a deal in England or France, or even possibly Connacht. He never let us down, but you're not going to win trophies with him in your starting 15.

What are your thoughts about locks in general Snoop? We're crying out for a new LH as far as I can see.
 
It's often said that locks should be 6'6" plus. I don't subscribe to that theory. I like big, tough bast*ards in the second row. A couple of enforcers who can smash rucks and generally cause mayhem for 60 minutes. In fact that's how I like all tight five forwards to be with the possible exception of a ball playing hooker. Since you can replace four of them tactically (two props, a hooker and a second row on the bench), they can be rotated easily.

That's going slightly off point. For a slightly undersized second row in terms of lineout ability, you must compensate elsewhere. I'd have no problem with Roux and McCarthy as a second row partnership if they add ballast to the scrum, are active around the park and there's another lineout option in the team. As such, Jamie Heaslip and Kevin McLaughlin could become very important for their lineout ability next season. I suppose it's the French way of playing where.

Nathan Hines had everything I like in a lock. Brad Thorn did everything at a higher level than Hines except for top end lineout jumping. It's obviously very hard to replace each of them so Leinster should look for their second rows to bring different qualities to the table. Mike McCarthy isn't a bad place to start since he'll put his body on the line.

I think Leinster need to thin out their numbers in the second row and look to add quality. For example this season would they have been better off with Devin Toner, Tom Denton and Damian Browne or with Nathan Hines, Mark Flanagan and Tadgh Beirne? The former is a great big bunch of meh, the latter has a top talent imparting knowledge on talented younger players.

Hopefully a second row will separate himself from the pack and force his way into first team reckoning much like what Jordi Murphy has done in the backrow. Mark Flanagan could be that guy.
 
It's often said that locks should be 6'6" plus. I don't subscribe to that theory. I like big, tough bast*ards in the second row. A couple of enforcers who can smash rucks and generally cause mayhem for 60 minutes. In fact that's how I like all tight five forwards to be with the possible exception of a ball playing hooker. Since you can replace four of them tactically (two props, a hooker and a second row on the bench), they can be rotated easily.

That's going slightly off point. For a slightly undersized second row in terms of lineout ability, you must compensate elsewhere. I'd have no problem with Roux and McCarthy as a second row partnership if they add ballast to the scrum, are active around the park and there's another lineout option in the team. As such, Jamie Heaslip and Kevin McLaughlin could become very important for their lineout ability next season. I suppose it's the French way of playing where.

Nathan Hines had everything I like in a lock. Brad Thorn did everything at a higher level than Hines except for top end lineout jumping. It's obviously very hard to replace each of them so Leinster should look for their second rows to bring different qualities to the table. Mike McCarthy isn't a bad place to start since he'll put his body on the line.

I think Leinster need to thin out their numbers in the second row and look to add quality. For example this season would they have been better off with Devin Toner, Tom Denton and Damian Browne or with Nathan Hines, Mark Flanagan and Tadgh Beirne? The former is a great big bunch of meh, the latter has a top talent imparting knowledge on talented younger players.

Hopefully a second row will separate himself from the pack and force his way into first team reckoning much like what Jordi Murphy has done in the backrow. Mark Flanagan could be that guy.

I think a lot of our problems this year came from injuries to Quinn Roux. Everything I've seen of him and heard from South African posters suggest he has what it takes to be a top player. His loss really set us back, in that we have to rely on a lot of average guys. I'd agree that we need to cut numbers here, there are way too many average guys floating about.

In other news, if BOD gets cited we are well and truly ****ed in the backs with a crucial period coming up. As it stands this could be our backline for the Ulster and Wasps games:

Boss, Madigan, Dave Kearney, Andrew Goodman, Eoin O'Malley, Isa Nacewa, Rob Kearney.
 
For what it worth Roux looked decent in A game Tuesday. And when up to speed can be an asset but Snoop and Feic I agree with ye about Browne but is it fair to say McCarthy isn't a whole lot better and has even looked a bit sluggish the more he was seen with Ireland. I do believe Leinster coaches will improve him but there is a glimpse of risk
 
McCarthy recently gained a few kilos to play TH lock, according to the papers. Might explain the sluggishness.

Also, I wouldn't judge Irish players too much over those last five games. The big lesson is that the wrong coach can pollute everything.
 
Agreed the McCarthy may be better served with Schmidt and Leinster but this signing does have the element of risk as to can he keep Irish form consistent over longer periods. But does that mean it very possible Cullen will drop out of reckoning next year
 
Dude, his Connacht form would serve Leinster just fine. And that's been very consistent.
 
Well as I say I haven't took much notice as he was missing on and off with few ****les etc.
 
Leinster have now confirmed the rumour that Isa Nacewa is retiring. He'll go down as one of Leinster's all time great players.

Nacewa hasn't been at his best this season. Leinster relied upon Nacewa and Heinke van der Merwe during international periods in the past but their absence during the 6 Nations Pro 12 fixtures was hardly noticed. Being cold and ruthless about this, at nearly 31 it's likely that his best days are behind him. Taking another team from another sport as an example, Man Utd stayed at the top by cutting players when they were no longer as useful as they once were - Roy Keane, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Wes Brown, Jaap Stam, John O'Shea, Nicky Butt spring to mind. Leinster must do the same and constantly regenerate or else they risk a fall off like Wasps or Munster.

This presents a huge opportunity to young outside backs. Fionn Carr, Isa Nacewa and Andrew Conway are all on the way out. Luke Fitzgerald has a long term injury. Players like Dave Kearney, Adam Byrne and Darren Hudson have a chance to stake their claim for a starting spot.
 
Easy enough to say we should cut players past their prime, replacing them is the problem. Is the Pietersen rumor likely?
 
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