The Leinster thread

[Peat]

Fantastic news for Madigan. Might be interesting to see what happens if Sexton wants to go back home after two years.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

@HenryChinaski
That's a good point. Leinster have done a good job of replenishing their team though. Take the 2009 Heineken Cup winning team:
Nacewa, Horgan, O'Driscoll, D'arcy, Fitzgerald, Sexton, Whitaker, Healy, Jackman, Wright, Cullen, O'Kelly, Elsom, Jennings, Heaslip

Horgan, Whitaker, Jackman, Wright, O'Kelly and Elsom have already been replaced successfully. Sexton will be a big loss. O'Driscoll, D'arcy and Cullen will have to be replaced too. While they'll be very tough to replace, countering that, Kearney, Fitzgerald, Healy, Strauss/Cronin, O'Brien, McLaughlin and Heaslip are only entering their prime. The academy is churning out talent although a lot of academy players are moving on to other teams too.

Long term Leinster will be fine. Short term this will hurt. I think Leinster will take a backward step next season but they're still good enough to make at least the Heineken Cup last eight.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

@Peat
I hope Sexton has a long successful career in France. He'll be 30 at the end of his Racing contract. Bringing him back wouldn't be a positive move for the future.

 

[Peat]

Maybe he'll want to come back. Maybe he'll be home sick, or given the IRFU's stance on home vs abroad players for selection and that there will be three high quality Irish players going week-in, week-out for their provinces, maybe he'll want to secure his international place. I'd certainly think he'd want to finish his career in Ireland to get the tax break. Are you going to turn down Sexton if he wants to return? He mightn't exactly be one for the future at 30, but there'd still be 3-4 good seasons in him, and sometimes the future is best served by looking after the now; Sexton to me is on those players who lifts people around him, inspiring them to be better and better.

p.s. If you think O'Kelly's shoes have been successfully filled by Devin Toner, I shall have to raise my eyebrow in a very sceptical manner.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

What I'm saying is that if Madigan successfully takes Sexton's place, Leinster would have to think long and hard about whether bringing Sexton back is in the interests of the team. Is a 30 year old who's passing his peak a better option than a 26 year old approaching his?

Yes, I am saying that. Toner is hardly top class and isn't a patch on the 2000-2005 O'Kelly vintage. O'Kelly for the last couple of years of his career wasn't a particularly strong player and Toner wasn't far off his standard in 2009. Mike McCarthy coming in next year will help hugely in transitioning Leo Cullen out of the team. Where there'll be a deficit is in terms of leadership. Time for Kearney, Nacewa, Ross and Heaslip to step up.

 

[Peat]

Depends on how well Madigan is going - and that was my point about it being interesting, very difficult to predict where things will sit in two years. Could be Leinster are crying out for Sexton to return, could be he's not needed at all. I do find it safe to say that either Leinster would like him back or he'll be worrying about his Ireland place by the end of those two years though.

And fair point about O'Kelly at the end and Toner. Do reckon you need better though, but easier said than done.

 

[SpanishBob]

French salary cap is destroying balance in european rugby. And that's really worrying. For me Sexton leaving Leinster is a tragedy. You just can't find such a talented fly-halve everywhere. He is one of those players who make the difference. Having said hat I think Madigan is a fantastic player, and he will prove how good he is from now on. However Sexton is the best european fly-half and nowadays only Dan Carter is, in my opinion, better than he is.
The question is wether is there any british or irish team able to to stop monster french teams as Toulon, Racing Metro or Clermont. I think the Heineken Cup will become a replica of th top 14 in years to come. And considering how awful are playoff tryless matches between french teams, that's not good news at all.

 

[coonor]

Leinster now arguably have to make the biggest decision in their recent history:

1) They can back Madigan, Who's still only 23 years old and has some great ability. Although he lacks game control, some would argue that at this time in his career he's still ahead of where Sexton was when he was 23.

2) Make a marque signing and by this I mean the likes of Dan Carter. This would more than cater for the loss of Sexton and would in the short term hold Sexton's place or allow Leinster to develop Madigan further.

 

[lynam1104]

Would rather we back Ian. Marque signings hurt could hurt the team quite severely. If we chose madagins development we could see another top class 10 out of Leinster, defensive improvements needed but I'd said achievable.

This will definitely strengthen the dept of Irish tens and see ROG out faster.

Having said that it's a shame to lose one of the worlds best 10's

 

[McTallshort]

Leinster now arguably have to make the biggest decision in their recent history:

1) They can back Madigan, Who's still only 23 years old and has some great ability. Although he lacks game control, some would argue that at this time in his career he's still ahead of where Sexton was when he was 23.

2) Make a marque signing and by this I mean the likes of Dan Carter. This would more than cater for the loss of Sexton and would in the short term hold Sexton's place or allow Leinster to develop Madigan further.

Could Leinster afford a player like Carter?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

@Peat
Agreed on second rows. Apparently Leinster are trying to add Andries Bekker to Mike McCarthy in the list of recruits at the position. Also agree about Sexton's place being under threat two years from now. My ideal scenario would have been for Sexton to secure a 3 year deal with Leinster and then at 31, to chase the money in France. Leinster likely would have lost out on keeping Madigan in that instance though.

@SpanishBob
European rugby has to be careful that it doesn't just become a French dominated zone.I often speculate about a pan-European league to replace the current structure. I can see the Celtic nations looking at that now that it appears Wales, Scotland and Ireland will all struggle to hold onto it's top talent. Could a British & Irish League and a continental European League (French and Italian) be on the horizon? Similar to MLB or NFL with end of season playoffs.

@coonor
I'd prefer to see Madigan develop. If there is to be a marquee signing, I'd like it to be at 4, 9 or 12.

@Tallshort
Probably not. The IRFU have financial muscle but not as much as France.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Disastrous. It was on the cards, and considering all he's done you can't blame him for going, but I'm still very glum. My favorite player.


For Leinster this is awful news. I mean it's about the worst thing that could happen. The team was primed to be built around Sexton for the next few years. Our best player in arguably the most important position on the pitch. Madigan is a decent player, but he's got very little in terms of game management. I'd little faith in him being able to handle a cold day down in Thomond for example, while that's the kind of atmosphere Johnny excelled in.

Another worry now is the situation at 9. With Boss and Reddan getting on I would have liked a senior player in the 10 shirt to bring Cooney and McGrath into the team. The odds are that we'll now have to look abroad for good 9, and possibly a back up 10.

 

[coonor]

The problem is that Leinster's whole game plan since 2009 has revolved around Sexton. He's been the force behind Leinster's rise to the top of European rugby, although the club has many outstanding players, Sexton has been the key player!

Having said that, no one can be bigger than the team. We cannot dwell of what Sexton was or what he will be, instead we have to act appropriately to find a replacement whether it be Madigan or not, someone has to fill Sexton's very large boots.

 

[Teh Mite]

http://offsidetackle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/jonny-sexton-says-****-this-for-game-of.html

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Disastrous. It was on the cards, and considering all he's done you can't blame him for going, but I'm still very glum. My favorite player.


For Leinster this is awful news. I mean it's about the worst thing that could happen. The team was primed to be built around Sexton for the next few years. Our best player in arguably the most important position on the pitch. Madigan is a decent player, but he's got very little in terms of game management. I'd little faith in him being able to handle a cold day down in Thomond for example, while that's the kind of atmosphere Johnny excelled in.

Another worry now is the situation at 9. With Boss and Reddan getting on I would have liked a senior player in the 10 shirt to bring Cooney and McGrath into the team. The odds are that we'll now have to look abroad for good 9, and possibly a back up 10.

Pretty much my reaction as well, you just left out the crying bit.

As for 9, I think people are expecting Boss' and Reddan's career to be shorter than they will be, I'd say they both have about two years granted contracts go that way. Cooney is getting a decent amount of game time and that will only improve and McGrath is still very young. We very much need a back-up, if not starting out half. as Noel Reid isn't up to it in my opinion. A lock and a centre should be our prime targets because although I don't think Madigan is up to winning a Heineken cup yet, within two years he could be top class and within 3-4 he could be starting for Ireland, this is a blow and probably means we won't win the HEC in 2014 and 2015 but by 2016 I'd be confident that the new generation of Leinster players will be in contention in Europe.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Well that's not the best day Leinster ever had.

On Heinke van der Merwe leaving, at least Cian Healy is still around. I don't buy into the Jack McGrath hype train but now he has a chance to show what he can do. It's a move that makes sense for Irish rughy.

On Andrew Conway, he'll probably be a Munster first team player. Their press release says Conway can also play fullback. I don't share that optimism. Conway's strength is as a runner in space. He hasn't got a big boot and is hit and miss under a high ball. He's a winger who so far hasn't lived up to the hype. It's a good move for him.

On Jonny Sexton, the offer was too good to refuse. Ian Madigan isn't in the same class as him but Sexton wasn't in the same class as Dr Phil four years ago. I think Madigan can seize the opportunity. He's an excellent game breaker, brilliant passer, has a huge boot and is a brave defender. His decision making and consistency in his kicking need refinement but he's surround by multi-cap internationals. He's being put into a situation where he can succeed. Madigan has started games in the Aviva in front of 40,000 plus fans against Munster and Clermont. He's started in the Heineken Cup at fly half against Montpellier. He's played in two Heineken Cup finals. He's kicked a drop goal to kill off Munster in front of a packed Thomond Park. He doesn't lack for confidence and is ready for the job.

 

[big ginger 8]

Whats this I hear about Racings president now saying Sextons too expensive?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Whats this I hear about Racings president now saying Sextons too expensive?

Bad move by Sextons agent. Rejected the IRFU offer before signing with Racing so now they're trying to get him on a smaller contract. As far as I can tell anyway.

 

[big ginger 8]

So apparently the IRFU wouldn't even go over Headlips wage of 450000. Incredibly stupid regulations about the contract as Leinster can't make an offer now they could have kept him with a combined offer IMO.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

So apparently the IRFU wouldn't even go over Headlips wage of 450000. Incredibly stupid regulations about the contract as Leinster can't make an offer now they could have kept him with a combined offer IMO.

They couldn't have afforded that because when contract renewal time comes round for the likes of Healy and Kearney they'd be looking for that kind of money and it would inflate the rest of the players wages.