The Blues?!

[Darwin]

I always thought he was one of Tasmans best players, certainly has been the past few seasons. At least he has had a few decent ITM games as opposed to McKenzie who has done nothing. Age shouldn't be a bigger factor than form. Wait until the young guys actually play well before picking them. Guys like Dan Kirkpatrick, Tyler Blyendaal, Jason Shoemark etc all got elevated above their post too early because they were young and made age grade teams, despite never really playing well enough at senior level to justify being picked any higher. Blyendaal is the latest example. He was awful in Super Rugby, and has continued to underwhelm in the ITM cup this season. Give it another season he will be warming the bench for the Blues then overseas to cash in.

Perhaps describing Malneek as having 5-6 seasons of mediocrity was unfair on my part. I think he has been a good NPC player for a number of seasons, but I haven't seen anything from me that would suggest he would be anything other than a journeyman Super Rugby player if given the chance. Yes, he has had a few very good games this season, but I would rather wait until until the end of the season to see whether he can keep this up, or whether he drops back to his normal levels (which, given his career thus far, I think is far more likely).

While I do agree that ideally teams should wait until young guys play well before picking them, but I don't think it is practical given the current contracting system. If you wait too long for a player they will be snapped up by another franchise, and you will lose out on them. In many ways franchises are now just taking a gamble on younger players. If, for example, a franchise gets 5 young players and 1 or 2 of these turn out to be a top class players, their investment has probably payed off. As you mention this is not good for the players themselves, as many will be picked before they are ready, but unfortunately this is the way of professional sports these days.

In terms of McKenzie, I actually think he will be a very good investment for the Blues. Yes he has done next to nothing (in a very poor Southland side), but he looks to have the talent and the temperament to go a long way in the game. Is he a better player right now than Robbie Malneek? Probably not. Will he be in a years time? Maybe. Will be be in two years? No doubt in my opinion.

As a slight aside I see that Wellington fullback Jason Woodward has signed a two year deal with the Rebels. He was another fullback who I thought would be pushing for a Super Rugby contract this season, so it is a bit disappointing to see him leave...

 

[Larksea]

my only point on Malneek was that if he is good enough then I hope his age does not stop him getting a contract.

That try he scored against southland I think was one of the better individual tries I've seen in a long time, not just that though he's looking very hard to tackle in general from what I have seen. Pretty good speed.

 

[Darwin]

my only point on Malneek was that if he is good enough then I hope his age does not stop him getting a contract.

If he is good enough I think he will get a contract regardless of his age. I just don't think he is good enough!

That try he scored against southland I think was one of the better individual tries I've seen in a long time, not just that though he's looking very hard to tackle in general from what I have seen. Pretty good speed.

It was a good try, but I didn't think it was that great of an individual try. It was from long range, but all he had to do was outpace Jamie MackIntosh and Jimmy Cowan, who are hardly the quickest players around! I thought Peter Betham's try in that game was pretty spectacular though....

 

[Larksea]

hmm and robbie robinson who is one of the fastest guys in new zealand

granted I've not watched a whole lot of Tasman games but what I have seen of him has always been impressive, IMO he's without question one of the best runners in this years ITM cup that I've seen.

 

[Darwin]

hmm and robbie robinson who is one of the fastest guys in new zealand

granted I've not watched a whole lot of Tasman games but what I have seen of him has always been impressive, IMO he's without question one of the best runners in this years ITM cup that I've seen.

He certainly didn't outpace Robinson.

http://www.skysport.co.nz/video/rugby-union/itm-cup-2012/itm-cup-southland-v-tasman-62544/

Robinson is 20m+ away from him when he makes the break, and comes within a metre or so of catching him! Malneek may be quick compared to MackIntosh and Cowan, but he is pretty slow compared to Robinson (as most players are!).

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Rumours going about that Anscombe hasn't been offered a contract for next season with the Blues.

Must be a load of crap, surely?

 

[Larksea]

Gotta be crap, Really there is no one else good enough.

IMO he is just behind the likes of Cruden, barrett and slade. Only like 21 he is a good option to take the team forward, and he should be much better off for his first year in super rugby. Would be a massive shame to see the blues turn their back on him. particularly as he's local.

 

[Darwin]

The Anscombe news has been repeated by a number of news sources, so there may well be some truth behind it (though they could just all be copying each other...). It would a truly bizarre move by the Blues, though it could well explain why they opted to sign Chris Noakes so early on. Anscombe had an outstanding game for Auckland last night, so if this rumor is true the Blues coaches may well be ruing their decision!

If Anscombe does leave the Blues it is not immediately obvious where he would go. I'm sure any of the other New Zealand Super Rugby franchises would be happy to have him, though he would more likely be a bench player than a starter. If he wants he can come down to Highlanders, as we will need a first-five after Slade and Sopoaga get injured in week 3 (I jest of course...... Slade is unlikely to make it to week 3 ). The other option is follow his old man to Ireland, which I don't think would be completely out of the question, especially as Ireland are pretty keen on their 'project players'!

 

[Shaggy]

The Anscombe news has been repeated by a number of news sources, so there may well be some truth behind it (though they could just all be copying each other...). It would a truly bizarre move by the Blues, though it could well explain why they opted to sign Chris Noakes so early on. Anscombe had an outstanding game for Auckland last night, so if this rumor is true the Blues coaches may well be ruing their decision!

If Anscombe does leave the Blues it is not immediately obvious where he would go. I'm sure any of the other New Zealand Super Rugby franchises would be happy to have him, though he would more likely be a bench player than a starter. If he wants he can come down to Highlanders, as we will need a first-five after Slade and Sopoaga get injured in week 3 (I jest of course...... Slade is unlikely to make it to week 3 ). The other option is follow his old man to Ireland, which I don't think would be completely out of the question, especially as Ireland are pretty keen on their 'project players'!

... No, he'll head south to the Highlander like all Aucklanders that aren't required do ... all of the Otago locals jump ship to Oz

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

The Anscombe news has been repeated by a number of news sources, so there may well be some truth behind it (though they could just all be copying each other...). It would a truly bizarre move by the Blues, though it could well explain why they opted to sign Chris Noakes so early on. Anscombe had an outstanding game for Auckland last night, so if this rumor is true the Blues coaches may well be ruing their decision!

If Anscombe does leave the Blues it is not immediately obvious where he would go. I'm sure any of the other New Zealand Super Rugby franchises would be happy to have him, though he would more likely be a bench player than a starter. If he wants he can come down to Highlanders, as we will need a first-five after Slade and Sopoaga get injured in week 3 (I jest of course...... Slade is unlikely to make it to week 3 ). The other option is follow his old man to Ireland, which I don't think would be completely out of the question, especially as Ireland are pretty keen on their 'project players'!

Noakes was signed by Lam, before Kirwan was named coach, so he had no input in that decision.

Neither Noakes nor Hobbs can take the Blues to the championship - supposedly JK is looking at signing Dan Waenga from Hawke's Bay. The Chiefs and Hurricanes all have ample room for a young five eighth - though the team with the most need of one is of course the Blues

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

In other news, Fritz Lee has re-signed with the Chiefs.

http://www.chiefs.co.nz/news/fritz-lee-re-signs-with-chiefs.html

 

[Darwin]

Noakes was signed by Lam, before Kirwan was named coach, so he had no input in that decision.

Neither Noakes nor Hobbs can take the Blues to the championship - supposedly JK is looking at signing Dan Waenga from Hawke's Bay. The Chiefs and Hurricanes all have ample room for a young five eighth - though the team with the most need of one is of course the Blues

I read Dan Waenga was an option, but he is hardly the most inspiring 10 in the country! To me he is very much a journey NPC first-five - just like the two 10's the Blues currently have (assuming Anscombe is confirmed as leaving..).

In other news, Fritz Lee has re-signed with the Chiefs.

http://www.chiefs.co.nz/news/fritz-lee-re-signs-with-chiefs.html

Slightly surprised by this - I thought Lee was very much on the outer this season. He certainly deserves a Super Rugby contract, I just hope he gets more chances with the Chiefs this season (I thought he may have gone to the Blues....)

 

[Larksea]

If there is truth to Anscombe not being required at the blues then surely they must have someone else ready to sign? Nokes and Hobbs are OK but maybe not totally top shelf players you would expect to be the main first five for a super rugby franchise.

Who else could it be?

Options, I don't know what their contract status is but

Andrew Horrell - Brilliant for the chiefs, can play 10
James Marshall - an option but unlikely
lima sapoanga or Colin Slade? - no idea what his contact status is for these guys, I'd expect if they were to drop Anscombe it would be for a quality player like one of these guys or Horrell.

or heck maybe they are going to run with Weepu as their main first five?

One thing is for sure, if Anscombe is not signed by the blues he should quickly be snapped up by some other franchise.

There are other options around but not really any that are actually better than Anscombe. Considering hes still like 21 and did ok/well in his first season.

 

[Larksea]

I thought Lee was off to the the blues as well when the chiefs signed Crosswell.

6 & 7 jumper is pretty much accounted for at the chiefs suggests Croswell was most likely going to be used as a #8

may mean Lee has another year with limited game time at the chiefs.

 

[Darwin]

If there is truth to Anscombe not being required at the blues then surely they must have someone else ready to sign? Nokes and Hobbs are OK but maybe not totally top shelf players you would expect to be the main first five for a super rugby franchise.

Who else could it be?

Options, I don't know what their contract status is but

Andrew Horrell - Brilliant for the chiefs, can play 10
James Marshall - an option but unlikely
lima sapoanga or Colin Slade? - no idea what his contact status is for these guys, I'd expect if they were to drop Anscombe it would be for a quality player like one of these guys or Horrell.

or heck maybe they are going to run with Weepu as their main first five?

One thing is for sure, if Anscombe is not signed by the blues he should quickly be snapped up by some other franchise.

There are other options around but not really any that are actually better than Anscombe. Considering hes still like 21 and did ok/well in his first season.

As I understand it Slade and Sopoaga are signed for the Highlanders till the end of next season, so unless the Highlanders have de-listed them (as the Blues apparently did with Anscombe), they will both be with the Highlanders next season. I understand Horrell is still contracted to the Chiefs too (and they would be mad to let him go!).

I agree it would seem strange that they would de-list Anscombe if they didn't have anyone ready to sign, but I just can't see who that would be at this stage!

 

[smartcooky]

Perhaps describing Malneek as having 5-6 seasons of mediocrity was unfair on my part. I think he has been a good NPC player for a number of seasons, but I haven't seen anything from me that would suggest he would be anything other than a journeyman Super Rugby player if given the chance.

Calling him "journeyman" is way off base.

He has never played for any other NPC team than Tasman, although he has played three seasons with Crociati in the Italian Super 10, those were "as well as" not "instead of" playing for Tasman in those seasons.

He has clocked up over 90 matches in the NPC, the Super 10 and the Amlin Challenge Cup since his Tasman debut in the 2006 season. The is NOT the record of a journeyman!!

Teams wouldn't keep picking him if he wasn't any good.

 

[Darwin]

Calling him "journeyman" is way off base.

He has never played for any other NPC team than Tasman, although he has played three seasons with Crociati in the Italian Super 10, those were "as well as" not "instead of" playing for Tasman in those seasons.

He has clocked up over 90 matches in the NPC, the Super 10 and the Amlin Challenge Cup since his Tasman debut in the 2006 season. The is NOT the record of a journeyman!!

Teams wouldn't keep picking him if he wasn't any good.

No, I'm just using a different definition of journeyman to you!

To quote the mighty Wikipedia: "In American English, a journeyman or journeywoman is an athlete who is technically competent but unable to excel. The term is used elsewhere (such as in British (and Australian contexts) to refer to a professional sportsman who plays for a large number of different clubs during his career."

I tend to use the word journeyman in the American sense (largely as I watch a lot of NBA, where the word is used ad nauseum). To me it describes someone who is a solid player, but is not a star. I should have made that clearer in my post - I apologize for that (and for using Americanism's, which I'm normally not a big fan of myself!). I'm not suggesting he is a bad player - the fact he starts for Tasman year after year is clear proof of that. However the fact he has played 5-6 years of ITM Cup rugby and hasn't been offered a Super Rugby contract suggests to me that (in the opinion of Super Rugby coaches) he is not up to Super Rugby standard!

 

[Larksea]

Dan Waenga linked with the blues?

he's an ok player, was it a couple years ago he had an absolute blinder in an ITM cup game and looked like he should have been put straight into the All Blacks but overall he's basically been a good itm cup player, nothing more.

I think it would be a huge mistake to drop Gareth for Waenga. Absolute shocker.

 

[Larksea]

wonder if the blues are looking at Tom Taylor?

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

How curious:

"Meanwhile, The Dominion Post understands dumped Blues first five-eighth Gareth Anscombe may end up playing his rugby for the Chiefs next season.Anscombe has been delisted from the Blues.
They are understood to be chasing Counties-Manukau pivot Baden Kerr."

This is very interesting. I like Baden Kerr, I think he's a very similar player to Anscombe. I don't think he's a better player as such, but I would've been happy had he signed with the Chiefs. Looks like we may be swapping him for Anscombe though, which is quite good!