The Blues?!

[admartian]

yeah it's obvious Weepu wants back to wellington but the Canes wont have him. can't blame them.

I honestly cant see Weepu being of great use to the blues either, and it's fricken bizare that he still gets selected for the AB's even as what? the 5th or 6th best halfback in NZ? Kicking a few goals against Argentina does not make him an automatic pick. He almost lost the final, shocker of a game.

Next years blues squad is going to be very interesting. I'm still really interested in the status of Anthony Boric, IMO he is a great player and underrated in my book. IMO he should be the one taking over from Thorn. he got a neck injury that was supposed to put him out for a few weeks and months later there has been no word other than somewhere I'd read that he may give the game away because of the injury. I think he will be a critical part of the blues nest season if he can come back.

I think Anscombe has the goods, he will be very good for the blues in time - will have learned a lot this year.

I honestly think the blues should raid the 7's squad. Tim Mickleson in particular or Frank Hali I believe would be better 15's outside backs than Stowers and Munro or even Parks who was solid - nothing more.

The Key really is not just what happens next year but the following years. The Blues and Auckland need to get together and make sure the best Schoolboy players stay in the 15 man game and don't get lured away by the Warriors and other NRL clubs. They need to strike a relationship with the School coaches and identify the top guys and get them into a development/scholarship program and secure them in Rugby. League will always suck players away from Union. There are only 5 super teams and 16 NRL teams that all have an Under 20's side that's semi professional - that's hard to compete with - the key is making sure the BEST stay in rugby.

I agree.

I think cultivating young talent and stopping the bleed to rugby league (and what usually ends up being a player for Australia anwyay <_<) and make sure Auckland retains rugby players, and ultimately for the All Blacks.

Imagine if Auckland kept a majority of the good talent, how much stronger the depth for the ABs would be.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I agree.

I think cultivating young talent and stopping the bleed to rugby league (and what usually ends up being a player for Australia anwyay <_<) and make sure Auckland retains rugby players, and ultimately for the All Blacks.

Imagine if Auckland kept a majority of the good talent, how much stronger the depth for the ABs would be.

Definitely crucial to stop the league teams nicking the best players. Look at what Konrad Hurrell is doing in his second year of league, he must have been a phenomenal union player so it sucks that he is lost to the game.

 

[Larksea]

yeah, Hurrell was plucked out of first XV rugby. Would be interesting to know how many of the dominant warriors U20 team have come from Auckland first XV rugby over the last few years.

Also have to look at Mike Harris as one who slipped through the system.

I think in NZ there is a bit of an attitude where players have to earn everything and if they miss out then they have to work harder. But the Aussies are constantly sniffing around, they do their homework and have a great eye for talent and always know what's going on. When the Reds came to NZ this season Ewen Mckenzie stayed on in Auckland to go to some first XV games while his team went back to Aussie. maybe Auckland/Blues need to be more proactive and not just wait for the best players to come to them through the system. Go out into the school sides and sign guys straight to the Blues/Auckland.

 

[admartian]

yeah, Hurrell was plucked out of first XV rugby. Would be interesting to know how many of the dominant warriors U20 team have come from Auckland first XV rugby over the last few years.

Also have to look at Mike Harris as one who slipped through the system.

I think in NZ there is a bit of an attitude where players have to earn everything and if they miss out then they have to work harder. But the Aussies are constantly sniffing around, they do their homework and have a great eye for talent and always know what's going on. When the Reds came to NZ this season Ewen Mckenzie stayed on in Auckland to go to some first XV games while his team went back to Aussie. maybe Auckland/Blues need to be more proactive and not just wait for the best players to come to them through the system. Go out into the school sides and sign guys straight to the Blues/Auckland.

Yeah, who needs an Aussie local competition/farming system when you can piggyback off of NZ...

 

[William18]

yeah, Hurrell was plucked out of first XV rugby. Would be interesting to know how many of the dominant warriors U20 team have come from Auckland first XV rugby over the last few years.

Also have to look at Mike Harris as one who slipped through the system.

I think in NZ there is a bit of an attitude where players have to earn everything and if they miss out then they have to work harder. But the Aussies are constantly sniffing around, they do their homework and have a great eye for talent and always know what's going on. When the Reds came to NZ this season Ewen Mckenzie stayed on in Auckland to go to some first XV games while his team went back to Aussie. maybe Auckland/Blues need to be more proactive and not just wait for the best players to come to them through the system. Go out into the school sides and sign guys straight to the Blues/Auckland.

I think a lot of schoolboy players play 1st XV because that is the top level of rugby. League may always be there favourite sport but they just want the superior competition. The Blues could offer contracts to these guys but if a player wants to play league then he is just going to play league.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

I think a lot of schoolboy players play 1st XV because that is the top level of rugby. League may always be there favourite sport but they just want the superior competition. The Blues could offer contracts to these guys but if a player wants to play league then he is just going to play league.

Imo I dont think that is the case. I think that the system they have in league is much better and more attractive for the young players rather than the one they have for ARU.

It is much easier to make it in league rather than union imo because of the system that they put in place with the u20toyota cup and NSW cup. In union if you're not in the mix with ARU from school boy rugby then it is much harder to get into or noticed by the franchise. I mean once these young players leave school, where do you go from there? Club rugby?

My own experience, there are many scouters from Aussie clubs and from the Warriors that sign up many 1stxv players each year and offer them attractive contracts. How can these young players turn down these contracts when they are offered large (to the young players) sums of money.

 

[Shovenose]

Hope Kirwan is a good bar tender

 

[Sam Owen]

My starting Blues team for next year would look something like -
1. Tony Woodcock
2. Kevin Mealamu
3. Charlie Faumoina
4. Anthony Boric
5. Liaki Moli
6. Luke Braid
7. Daniel Braid
8. Matthew Luamanu
9. Alby Mathewson
10. Gareth Anscombe
11. Rene Ranger
12. Ma'a Nonu
13. Francis Saili
14. Sherwin Stowers
15. Charles Piatau

I like this team especially the backline. Once it gels it'll be a real force. Wulf and Weepu on standby ofcourse makes it only a bonus.

Forgot about Luamanu, hes definately a good player and I think is more rounded then Saili is. Good skills all round and more safer is Luamanu. Lowry is another good player but consistency is his problem and its hard for him considering his bad luck of injuries.

Good team though, I'd like to see that team run out for us next year.

 

[Amobokoboko]

How's Boric his neck injury going? I thought he was thinking of quitting playing rugby?

 

[Darwin]

How's Boric his neck injury going? I thought he was thinking of quitting playing rugby?

I haven't heard much about his neck injury recently (which is probably not a good sign...). Hopefully he can make it back as he is a top quality player (and I very important member of Blues forward pack). The North Harbour ITM Cup squad is due to be named on Saturday, and it will be very interesting to see whether his name is mentioned.....

 

[Larksea]

I haven't heard much about his neck injury recently (which is probably not a good sign...). Hopefully he can make it back as he is a top quality player (and I very important member of Blues forward pack). The North Harbour ITM Cup squad is due to be named on Saturday, and it will be very interesting to see whether his name is mentioned.....

I couldn't give a toss about nth harb rugby but I will watch for this with great interest may be the first news we got on boric for some time. cheers

 

[William18]

Imo I dont think that is the case. I think that the system they have in league is much better and more attractive for the young players rather than the one they have for ARU.

It is much easier to make it in league rather than union imo because of the system that they put in place with the u20toyota cup and NSW cup. In union if you're not in the mix with ARU from school boy rugby then it is much harder to get into or noticed by the franchise. I mean once these young players leave school, where do you go from there? Club rugby?

My own experience, there are many scouters from Aussie clubs and from the Warriors that sign up many 1stxv players each year and offer them attractive contracts. How can these young players turn down these contracts when they are offered large (to the young players) sums of money.

I was referring to New Zealand only and specifically the situation with McGahan, Tuivasa-Schek and other players taken from 1st XV but who have league backgrounds.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

I was referring to New Zealand only and specifically the situation with McGahan, Tuivasa-Schek and other players taken from 1st XV but who have league backgrounds.

oh apologies. I thought you said that majority of school boy players only play 1st xv because its the top competition, but that rugby league remains there favourite game.

I was also referring to NZ and many league scouters look at Auckland Secondary School rugby. I was just trying to say that maybe their favourite game is union but are their chances of making it in union is less than that of making it in league.

 

[Larksea]

Big news recently that good old uncle Ted is going to have a role as part of the blues coaching staff with JK and Mick Byrne

As far as I know every year the blues have won super rugby Ted has been involved.

I think even more so it creates a group that players will want to be involved in given Henry's record and success.

Very interesting.

 

[Darwin]

Rudi Wulf officially gone for next season now, with the NZRFU agreeing to cut his contract 1 year short so he can go back to Toulon. The Blues still have plenty of back three options, with the likes of Ranger, Raikuna, Nafi Tuitavake, Stowers, George Moala, Charles Piutau, and possibly even Ben Lam, Lolagi Visinia and Albert Nikora....

 

[Larksea]

Wulf thing is bizarre

from what I understand Toulon let him go early because his family struggled to adjust to France... Now the blues let him go early so he can go BACK to France????? Obviously did not enjoy being part of Lam's Blues.

I think the blues need to make major changes in the back three.

I dont think Stowers is really good enough, he's good in ITM cup and a great 7's player but I honestly can't see him establishing himself in super rugby or beyond.

Blues need results and without Toeava, Wulf and Rokocoko their outside backs are promising but none are genuinely guaranteed top class players. Ranger has x-factor but is he a leader? He the guy who is going to set the example? or is it more likely his form will be up and down and he will sit out a few weeks with suspension? or end up in Jail for some reason?

Mills is looking to come back to NZ, I recon he will be in good shape after two seasons of good training and easy games in Japan. For sure Ted will be talking to him...

i think they need someone else as well, If I were a blues selector I would keep an eye on Tim Mikkleson and if he has a good ITM cup he may be what the blues need. Tall, fast, great all round skillet, top finisher and at an elite level amongst professionals when it comes to work ethic and fitness. I'm sure similar options will come up this ITM cup.

Some fundamental bad selection decisions have killed the blues progress in the backs over the last few years.

- the selection of Monroe as a goal kicking winger (partly forced because Brett was so bad at goal kicking)
- Stephen Brett as main backline leader.
- Somehow letting Jared Payne go - they should never have let that happen.
- The non selection of Mike Harris
- how has Auckland - the biggest player pool in NZ not developed and elevated a top class halfback when every other super franchise in NZ has?

Blues are stuck with Weepu, he needs to be a special project to make sure he's fit. Mathewson needs to go, blues need a new young 9 Palu (counties 9) would be ideal but I'm sure he's signed with the chiefs for next season.

Blues desperately need Anscombe to keep developing and improving, he needs to be a main project for the coaching team.

 

[nickdnz]

Wulf thing is bizarre

from what I understand Toulon let him go early because his family struggled to adjust to France... Now the blues let him go early so he can go BACK to France????? Obviously did not enjoy being part of Lam's Blues.

I think the blues need to make major changes in the back three.

I dont think Stowers is really good enough, he's good in ITM cup and a great 7's player but I honestly can't see him establishing himself in super rugby or beyond.

Blues need results and without Toeava, Wulf and Rokocoko their outside backs are promising but none are genuinely guaranteed top class players. Ranger has x-factor but is he a leader? He the guy who is going to set the example? or is it more likely his form will be up and down and he will sit out a few weeks with suspension? or end up in Jail for some reason?

Mills is looking to come back to NZ, I recon he will be in good shape after two seasons of good training and easy games in Japan. For sure Ted will be talking to him...

i think they need someone else as well, If I were a blues selector I would keep an eye on Tim Mikkleson and if he has a good ITM cup he may be what the blues need. Tall, fast, great all round skillet, top finisher and at an elite level amongst professionals when it comes to work ethic and fitness. I'm sure similar options will come up this ITM cup.

Some fundamental bad selection decisions have killed the blues progress in the backs over the last few years.

- the selection of Monroe as a goal kicking winger (partly forced because Brett was so bad at goal kicking)
- Stephen Brett as main backline leader.
- Somehow letting Jared Payne go - they should never have let that happen.
- The non selection of Mike Harris
- how has Auckland - the biggest player pool in NZ not developed and elevated a top class halfback when every other super franchise in NZ has?

Blues are stuck with Weepu, he needs to be a special project to make sure he's fit. Mathewson needs to go, blues need a new young 9 Palu (counties 9) would be ideal but I'm sure he's signed with the chiefs for next season.

Blues desperately need Anscombe to keep developing and improving, he needs to be a main project for the coaching team.

Disagree with much of the highlighted points.

Stowers looked deadily in his last few games, one of the very rare opperunities that he got to start and play some significant game time. I personally prefer him in 7's because I think he's amazing there, but there is no doubt he's the best winger the Blues now have in my mind. Tim Mikkilson, as we've mentioned many many times before, is a fulltime 7's player, whom is not going to be playing Super Rugby. He's never really looked any where near as good in the ITM Cup as he has at 7's, where he's on of the best players in the circut.

Mike Harris maybe should have been selected more, but I don't think he's THAT good. I'd take Nonu at 2nd 5/8th over him anyday and I'm hoping Anscombe gets more time at 10.

Alby Mathewson does not need to go. At all. Looked better than Piri Weepu every game last year for the Blues. Got one of the best running games of any halfback, very good defense for a small guy and a quick and accurate pass. Never gets himself out of shape for a season like Weepu either. To top it off, he's still only 26, so hardly worth throwing away like you're content with.

 

[Larksea]

heh I knew you would disagree.

I AM being very brutal because that is honestly the stance the blues decision makers need to take, reality check time. Ask the tough questions.

for me stowers just has not shown in super rugby what he had in ITM cup 2-3 years ago or what he's done in 7's. he's small and IMO has limited potential. Heck I went to his wiki page and it says he now has 18 caps for the blues and just 1 try... 1.. (blues site has him 19 caps 1 try) He's now 26 (IMO wingers mostly peak before 25) and if he was that good he quite simply would have taken his chance with the blues by now. Good player but the blues need better and should dam well have better with such a large selection pool. Tim I just see as having more potential at 15's, he's bigger, much taller genuine speed and the all round skills needed (could even play fullback). His hands let him down in ITM cup big time, if not for that he would have been a genuine standout I believe. Sseeing him in 7's you know his hands are not a problem in general. I think he would also being good balance to the squad, would he be a worse selection than Monro or Parks? he easily has more to offer than some of these guys.

hmmm... ok so Harris vs. Nonu is all you got?
How about:

Harris vs. Brett?
Harris vs. Michael Hobbs?
Harris vs. Lachie Monro?
Harris vs. Hadleigh parks?

There is a whole swag of fairly average backs that have been a part of the blues squad that are nowhere near as good as Harris. How were these guys good enough and Harris was not? Not selecting him was a massive mistake and it will haunt the blues for years. He's already won a super ***le with the reds and made the wallabies. I'd even go as far as to say I think Harris is a better player than Benson Stanley.

Mathewson is a good player but he's not the same player he was 3-4 years ago, he was rubbish for the first half of this super season and at times looked disinterested, had one really good game later in the season but still could not hold that momentum, and is generally a pretty poor kicker easily the worst of the top maybe 6-8 halfbacks in NZ today. Blues are stuck with weepu and hopefully he will make a conscious effort to be fit and have a strong 2013 to make up for this year, sure having Ted around will help. As of right now Mathewson does not have a contract with the blues for next year and I see good reason for that. He should have to play his way back into the squad and I think the blues selectors should hold off and look for better options in the ITM cup. I can't honestly see other franchises leaping to sign him, else it would have happened already.

 

[admartian]

How about:

Harris vs. Brett?
Harris vs. Michael Hobbs?
Harris vs. Lachie Monro?
Harris vs. Hadleigh parks?

I would only take "Aussie" Mike over Lachie Munro. Even with Brett's lack of commitment and a defensive game, he had games where he would shine into one of the better 10s in the country.

Harris is a very poor man's version of Berrick Barnes...at best.

 

[Larksea]

seriously...

would hobbs, monro, Brett or parks make the wallabies squad? No dam chance...

Brett at his best was the most exciting 10 NZ had, even near par with Dan Carter but he made as many silly mistakes as he did great plays, for every brilliant clearing kick to touch he would kick one out on the full and put his team in dire straights. He was a below par tackler and a 50-60% goal kicker at best. If Brett could have just stuck to being a 12 forgot about goal kicking, worked hard on his tackling and cut down on the mistakes a bit he would have been an ok player. As he was the negative aspects of his game made him even a questionable selection for super rugby. Lam hinged his bets on Brett and I think it was ultimately what led to his downfall.

Harris at the very least is a player that played an important role in a super rugby ***le win, a very accurate goal kicker with good size and skills, I don't see that potential in those blues players I've mentioned. IMO he's done a hell of a lot better in super rugby than a huge number of blues players in this era.

Are you guys honestly saying the blues are better off without him? That it was a good idea to ignore his impressive showings at NPC/ITM cup level in favor of these other guys who have really made very little positive impact?