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The Autopsy thread: Which England team members are for the chopping block?

dullonien said:
England need to look a little deeper at why with 12 premiership teams, and a strong championship league, they can't produce more than 1/2 international class openside (jury is still out on Kvesic imo)?
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Only if you ignore how good he has shown he is.

He's got three (?) senior England games (2 capped) and been MOM in two of them, completely outplaying Haskell and Wood.

His average tackle count over those games must be in the mid 20's.
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Tigs Man said:
First 2 you are wrong.

3rd point I agree.
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Yep.

First two points betray either that you're trolling, or that you're knowledge of english rugby is abysmal.
 
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Before the missus grabbed the laptop I was going to add -:

4. Robshaw needs to go he is not an openside and he is not a leader.
5. Lancashire needs to go, last night highlighted the difference between a good coach and an average coach - Cheika had the nous to go to the ARFU and ask for permission to include players who play overseas, Lancaster was to stubborn.
 
Given the fact that despite positional issues we also shoot ourselves in the foot by regularly gifting penalties I was wondering if there was anywhere to get the stats on who are the worst offenders. My gut reaction points a big finger at Cole - the new Lewis Moody (I am not anti Leicester it's just a coincidence). Any ideas? I feel this is a primary reason for our failure and should affect selection. If you can't keep your hands off the goods or even come in the right door too often then you should you be barred from the shop.
 
ratsapprentice said:
Only if you ignore how good he has shown he is.

He's got three (?) senior England games (2 capped) and been MOM in two of them, completely outplaying Haskell and Wood.

His average tackle count over those games must be in the mid 20's.
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Yep.

First two points betray either that you're trolling, or that you're knowledge of english rugby is abysmal.
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Can you stop using that stupid word trolling and get some rational behind your comments, anybody who understands rugby and I include several ex England players together with ex Lions and current rugby pundits who are saying Armitage should have been in the squad are you going to call them trolls as well or are you going to realise you are wrong, have you watched any Top 14 in the last couple of years ?
Do you think Armitage can go from European player of the year to ****e in a season ?
Clermont don't sign average players, neither do Toulon.
 
Metalman said:
Given the fact that despite positional issues we also shoot ourselves in the foot by regularly gifting penalties I was wondering if there was anywhere to get the stats on who are the worst offenders. My gut reaction points a big finger at Cole - the new Lewis Moody (I am not anti Leicester it's just a coincidence). Any ideas? I feel this is a primary reason for our failure and should affect selection. If you can't keep your hands off the goods or even come in the right door too often then you should you be barred from the shop.
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According to ESPN Marler 3 Brookes 2 Cole 0 although wouldn't trust ESPN 100%.

Would say Cole and Moody's offenses are a bit different Coles mainly happen when he is the first one there (why a prop who isn't know for his mobility is the first one to a ruck I don't know) and he tries to do his best impression of a open side, Moody tended to just act like a jack Russell and go 100% into everything and wasn't as much method to the madness if you know what I mean.

I think Cole could do with a rest from England for a bit and hopefully Balmain will do a 60/40 split at Leicester with him aka Castro and Cole when Cole first hit the scene.
 
valley commando said:
I made some of the following comments pre WC and was slated by certain fools -:

1. Lancaster and the RFU are stupid to stick with the no players picked who play abroad Stefan Armitage is the only genuine openside England have had since Neil Back.
2. Abendenon is a better fullback than Brown who clearly has issues temper wise leading to rash decisions with ball in hand.
3. Cipriani should have been in the squad.
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1. No he's not. There are numerous opensides in the premiership.
2. No he's not. He's had some good games for Clermont this season but that doesn't make him the greatest player ever.
3. Yes.
 
Steady on old boy. Rather harsh. Offensive, too.

And opinions are like a***holes - everyone has one!
 
whatithinksite.wordpress.com/thats-all-folks

This is my take on last night's game. Feel free to disagree with what I've said but I'd ask you to be polite if and when you do. I don't think that being upset is reason enough for being rude/aggressive.
I'm welsh so before you do decide to get aggressive with me - remember that I was experiencing what you're experiencing now only worse as we lost to Fiji, not Australia!
 
Tigs Man said:
According to ESPN Marler 3 Brookes 2 Cole 0 although wouldn't trust ESPN 100%.

Would say Cole and Moody's offenses are a bit different Coles mainly happen when he is the first one there (why a prop who isn't know for his mobility is the first one to a ruck I don't know) and he tries to do his best impression of a open side, Moody tended to just act like a jack Russell and go 100% into everything and wasn't as much method to the madness if you know what I mean.

I think Cole could do with a rest from England for a bit and hopefully Balmain will do a 60/40 split at Leicester with him aka Castro and Cole when Cole first hit the scene.
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I meant over the last few seasons not specifically last night but interesting anyway. I hear what you say about Cole/Moody and I suppose front rows are also open to the subjective judgement of some ref's who seem to 'even up' penalties as if it's being seen to be fair instead of letting them sort themselves out and only penalising the outrageously obvious (imagine if the ref stood over a ruck and couldn't see a thing but blew anyway as he/she felt it was probably time to deliver some fairness into the conflict!) but getting intelligent players in your squad is as important as their performance isn't it?

I agree about resting Cole, he doesn't seem to be the rock he was before injury. has he lost weight to allow the flanker like sudden manifestations at the breakdown?
 
Oh okay.

Yeh I get what you mean Cole has given away to many penalties over the last season or so with England.

He should know when to leave the ball at a ruck but I guess if your first at a ruck you instinct is to go for it. (He should know not to now).

It isn't the case at Leicester whereas Moody was, so I don't know if having Salvi about meant he didn't feel the need not to.

But then again he should know better or one of the coaches should of drilled it into him I guess.

Fortunate England have plenty of LH and TH coming up through the ranks that we have 1) cover and 2) competition.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
1. No he's not. There are numerous opensides in the premiership.
2. No he's not. He's had some good games for Clermont this season but that doesn't make him the greatest player ever.
3. Yes.
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So are you saying that there are 7's in the prem better than Armitage which in turn means you disagree with the those who picked him as European player of the year ?
I find that strange to say the least. You are also saying that ex international players and media pundits are less well informed than you.

I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the majority of England fans, but if I were you I would take on board the most pertinent comment made post match by none other than Jonny Wilkinson 'You can't cheat time' and this young England squad (with a few exceptions) can come again in 4 years, they just aren't ready yet.
 
valley commando said:
So are you saying that there are 7's in the prem better than Armitage which in turn means you disagree with the those who picked him as European player of the year ?
I find that strange to say the least. You are also saying that ex international players and media pundits are less well informed than you.

I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the majority of England fans, but if I were you I would take on board the most pertinent comment made post match by none other than Jonny Wilkinson 'You can't cheat time' and this young England squad (with a few exceptions) can come again in 4 years, they just aren't ready yet.
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[video=youtube_share;KJFfEIneOos]http://youtu.be/KJFfEIneOos[/video]

You said England have no genuine open sides.
 
It's not so much who is for the chop as to the top quality players that were left behind. The 2 Armitage brothers, Stefon in particular + Nick Abendanon who is a class act as FB and a better player than Browne. They should have been picked. Armitage never said he wanted to play for France anyway. He was waiting for an Eng call which never came.

Eng need to drop that silly policy about not picking players who play abroad. It's not working.
 
Bendy would have had no affect on England last night.

Behind a forward pack and getting quick ball ala Claremont he is wonderful

Behind a struggling pack and a slow set piece he is really hit or miss ala Bath.

People seem to forget how dominate the teams players like Armitage and Bendy play for.

Brb French top 14 fan says English players that play in top 14 should be able to play for England shocker.
 

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