The Autopsy thread: Which England team members are for the chopping block?

[Maverick1987]

Jones drops England hint
http://www.skysports.com/share/10018934

Just found this guys ....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pretty sure it Japan have a French scrum coach and Borthwick handles the mails and line outs.

Eddie Jones is also a scrum coach - there was a photo going around before the world cup of him literally standing on top of the front row of a Japanese scrum in training.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Eddie Jones is also a scrum coach - there was a photo going around before the world cup of him literally standing on top of the front row of a Japanese scrum in training.

 

[PacDuran]

What I am getting at regarding the knee-jerk reactors is that the media responds to the mob, and the mob responds to the media, and before you know it people lose their jobs. I'm just saying that we should wait for the dust to settle before making any decisions.

Regarding Gatland's slump, that's my point. Is it a slump if you are nurturing talent, cutting the teeth of players new to the international scene? When the result is, a few years later, a WC Semi that they could have won, followed by a GS and the 6N ***le, isn't it just what is necessary for the team to improve?

Regarding the Pool Exit, again, that's kind of my point. There is so much pressure on them to win the WC, despite Lancaster stating his aim is 2019, he's gambled on selection on the hope he'll strike gold. It was probably the toughest pool we've ever seen at a rugby world cup, we still should have beaten one of the two of Wales / Aus, but it didn't happen.

I know Mako's not that bad at scrummaging, but he's not yet world class in that field.

I wish we played more rugby in summer here.



Yeah Steve Borthwick has been the forwards coach since leaving Saracens.

- - - Updated - - -



Look at the effect it had on those players who did it and then returned, the only two I can think of are Cipriani (Australia) and Haskell (NZ & Japan), both of which went on to appear for England again.

You're right, I think it is positive to mix it up, but the reason the rule is in place is because England can't get our players as and when England need them. If they could get contract clauses inserted regarding national team selection like George North did when he moved to Saints then I think scrapping the rule could be an option.

Well seeing as I am the chief pitchfork waver of the mob, as you describe it, I must say that I am 100% not swayed by the fleet street filth! I posted this thread almost immediately after the Aus game and it is as an outsider looking in, an unbiased rugby fan that has seen many coaches come and go and can highlight awful coaching performances for what they are. Please tell me how it is a knee jerk reaction to get rid of a guy who dilly dallied over the Forde/Farrell situation as Lancaster did? How is it a knee jerk to see that the guy lost his nerve and picked the most abhorrent back line in England WC history for the Wales game? He listen to awful advice and tried to shoe horn Burgess into a national set up with 4 or 5 times more resources and registered players that their nearest rival? He kept Barritt in his midfield for years and some times picked 3 or 4 blind side flankers in his starting 15.

This guy is awful, let's be 100% honest here. As an Irishman I would be that much more confident facing a Robshaw captained and Lancaster/Farrell coached England side. this is not a kneejerk reaction due to a terrible world cup. It is the logical conclusion arrived at from watching his coaching methods and results over a period of years, culminating in a great loss of adventure and staleness. I stand by everything I said.

 

[OverGore]

The person on Top of scrum is Marc DalMaso, french scrum master. Eddie jones is just watchin with a smile on the right side of pic

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So he is! I remembered wrong

 

[OverGore]

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...land-coaches-under-investigation-at-world-cup is that serious?

 

[Every Time Ref]

Well seeing as I am the chief pitchfork waver of the mob, as you describe it, I must say that I am 100% not swayed by the fleet street filth! I posted this thread almost immediately after the Aus game and it is as an outsider looking in, an unbiased rugby fan that has seen many coaches come and go and can highlight awful coaching performances for what they are. Please tell me how it is a knee jerk reaction to get rid of a guy who dilly dallied over the Forde/Farrell situation as Lancaster did? How is it a knee jerk to see that the guy lost his nerve and picked the most abhorrent back line in England WC history for the Wales game? He listen to awful advice and tried to shoe horn Burgess into a national set up with 4 or 5 times more resources and registered players that their nearest rival? He kept Barritt in his midfield for years and some times picked 3 or 4 blind side flankers in his starting 15.

This guy is awful, let's be 100% honest here. As an Irishman I would be that much more confident facing a Robshaw captained and Lancaster/Farrell coached England side. this is not a kneejerk reaction due to a terrible world cup. It is the logical conclusion arrived at from watching his coaching methods and results over a period of years, culminating in a great loss of adventure and staleness. I stand by everything I said.

There's been growing dissatisfaction with Lancaster among the English posters on this board for a while, but it really came to a head BEFORE the Welsh match (when rumours started of the proposed midfield axis). I myself said something along the lines of "I think this will turn out to be the moment when I lost all faith in Lancaster", and I recall many others saying similar things. It's inaccurate to call it a kneejerk reaction when it was a reaction to something nearly all of us saw coming and when our concerns were raised when England had so far taken maximum points form the group.

 

[ncurd]

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...land-coaches-under-investigation-at-world-cup is that serious?

Doesn't matter really they'll be fined or banned (going to be sacked anyway).

TBH I suspect they were asking about the Hooper non-card

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34443308

As I noted in another thread if he is banned (retrospective red card essentially) could of very well of been a turning point in that game. Not that we deserved to win or would certainly of have done so. Not worth crying over now though.

 

[PacDuran]

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...land-coaches-under-investigation-at-world-cup is that serious?

They frame to headline like it's match fixing but it's probably just some mild impropriety.

 

[Every Time Ref]

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...land-coaches-under-investigation-at-world-cup is that serious?

Wouldn't surprise me, seems in keeping with the lack of integrity, poor judgement and sense of desperation we've seen from the England coaching team over the last couple of weeks.

 

[OverGore]

Yea, knowing he s cited now, basically it helps the following teams more than england, it could have been important fact in match yes. Card was deserved. tbh i did not understand the diplomacy of Poite on this, theres nothing to be diplomatic about, it was a bad foul made to hurt.

 

[PacDuran]

There's been growing dissatisfaction with Lancaster among the English posters on this board for a while, but it really came to a head BEFORE the Welsh match (when rumours started of the proposed midfield axis). I myself said something along the lines of "I think this will turn out to be the moment when I lost all faith in Lancaster", and I recall many others saying similar things. It's inaccurate to call it a kneejerk reaction when it was a reaction to something nearly all of us saw coming and when our concerns were raised when England had so far taken maximum points form the group.

The Cipriani and Danny Care non-selection, no 7 selection, and selecting an insane amount of blind side flankers is what did it for me.

 

[j_remos]

Yep fortunately we have the money.

SCW
Eddie Jones
Borthwick
(Scrum coach)
Mike Catt (maybe not sure here)
Wilko (Dave Alred role)
Maybe find defence coach somewhere.

Yes Please

 

[PacDuran]

Yes Please

Eddie Jones+Woodward would lead to a big clash of egos and to subsequent disaster so YEEEEEAAAAH! Let's see them ride the tandem bike!

 

[woodwarj13]

To be honest I don't think too many player ashamed themselves, I certainly think there are players who I thinks time should be over for England (Brad Barrit). As generally a fan of Owen Farrel I have to admit that he is not the future, Ford was the man going into this world cup and its disappointing how our whole game under Ford was banished in favour of an excellent kicker in Farrel. The thought was obviously to overpower opposition in the forwards and kick our points, however the forwards actually massively under performed and also gave away a huge amount of penalties. I think Robshaw in his preferred position has a place in the team however the leadership maybe needs to change hands. Dan Cole is looking off the boil completely, I certainly think Burgess can be used effectively, I feel he will lose interest in Union unfortunately. The future is with the young generation, Tuilagi and Jonathan Joseph should be the centre partnership and a return to our forward prowess needs to be achieved. Perhaps the current management hasn't been able to harness the potential of this team and that's where England need a change.

 

[Colombia]

There was no pressure for him to win the World Cup.

Pretty sure it Japan have a French scrum coach and Borthwick handles the mails and line outs.

I know he wasn't a popular player but Borthwick needs to be brought in purely as a lineout specialist, the guy is apparently obsessed with lineouts, he studies them all the time and the improvement in Japan's lineout is clear.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm on my phone so I won't quote the original post about abendanon and armitage improving....

******** they have!

Abendanon has always been a very good player, lethal on the counter but prone to brain farts. That hasn't changed a single bit.

Armitage was pretty outstanding in his last couple of seasons with Irish.

How much better did Wilko look once he left Newcastle?

 

[OverGore]

bernard laporte's answer to this is hiring a coach who never trained a professional club is suicide, as the rule made for players in other championships. So he blames at 99% the rfu, and finishes with
"Steffon Armitage a un Robshaw dans chaque jambe" Steffon has one robshaw in each of his legs... and then to insist on the lack of humility of rfu.
Gettin Samoans, neozeds in english team is ok if they play in england, but not an english player who plays on the other side of chanel. Where is the logic if anyone knows...Cant blame lancaster for this

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Eddie Jones+Woodward would lead to a big clash of egos and to subsequent disaster so YEEEEEAAAAH! Let's see them ride the tandem bike!

Yeh because Jake white is know for having the smallest ego in world rugby

Eddie Jones was the one who said it could be a option.