Test Match 3: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Auckland)

[TommiG88]

As an English nut living in Wales, I absolutely love the Lions - it's the only time I get to cheer for the same team as everyone else. I take issue with quite a few things that Gatland has done on this tour:

1. Not taking more Scots. The Scottish players are coming good and it's a crying shame that many Scottish fans are feeling pretty indifferent to the Lions. Watson, Russell and Taylor all might have been interesting picks. While I would usually take Launchbury over Jonny Gray on this year's 6N form, in the name of making the Lions truly representative, I'd give it to Jonny. AWJ shouldn't be on the tour, either on his 6N form or on what he's done in NZ. He's there on reputation alone.

2. The call-up of the 6. Devalued the shirt.

3. Not giving players who have been the best in the shirt on the tour a test start. Lawes has been head and shoulders above AWJ and Henderson hasn't been far behind him. I'd therefore have played both in the 2nd test after AWJ and Kruis bombed in the first test. Ditto McGrath and Marler - both have played better than Mako this tour. A lions tour comes just once every 4 years. It's just not fair to pick favourites who aren't playing that well.

4. Warburton as captain. He played well in the second test, but I don't agree with making him captain twice when that honour was denied to BOD and POC - both of whom were far superior players.

Never mind all that. I'll be in the Halfway cheering on the LADZ for all I'm worth tomorrow.

I disagree with your first comment. The Lions aren't a invitational exhibition side like the Barbas, and picking a player just to balance the numbers doesn't sit well with me.

Hogg was in with a good shout to be wearing the 15. I probably would have had Russell over Biggar, but there's not much in it. Taylor, no. Watson, yes.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

And third. Just rots me. Henderson, Lawes, POM, Kruis all worthy of a chance. 3 of them not making the 23 cut. Warburton walks on ..... After what exactly?

You can't deny that the ABs were much less dominant at the breakdown in the 2nd test. That needed to happen; maybe partly down to the red, but Warbs also played a (unflashy) role there. Bit of a leap of faith by Gatland, but he knows Warbs and trusted that he was ready to do a job. He put his neck on the line and it's judgement calls like that where he earns his money.

As for Kruis, damn unlucky. I think it was obvious to all that Itoje was going to come in, so maybe last week's weather forecast saved AWJ. Not too many coaches would change a team that's beaten the ABs.

 

[munstermuffin]

And third. Just rots me. Henderson, Lawes, POM, Kruis all worthy of a chance. 3 of them not making the 23 cut. Warburton walks on ..... After what exactly?

I made this point already. That is a result of brown nosing over the years. Fact is Warburton is a good player but considering his form and fitness and the performances and form of others he doesn't deserve his spot and sadly Gatland has caused a stir being bias and dragged Warburton down with him. He doesn't deserve some of abuse he get (from me included) but gets it as Gatland has dragged him it to it and the debacle with the "Geography 6" was enough on its own to really ruin everything special about the Lions. Win or Loose tomorrow I will say Gatland will deserve no praise or respect.
Like we all accuse our national coaches of bias and favouritism. Any of Irish guys will say I slate Schmidt. But at least they have some reasoning and smarts on their calls. Here, Gatland put player welfare, results and morale at risk.

 

[dullonien]

Kruis has been very hard done by IMO. One ropey performance in the first test seems to have cost him his test squad place. He was having a fine tour until then. Same goes for POM. Guess not everyone gets a second chance.

Personally don't agree re Kruis. He's a very good player, but he had an absolute shocker in the first test. His stats were pretty appalling in terms of turning the ball over + he gave away a couple of penalties & missed a couple of tackles to boot. Despite looking knackered alarmingly early in the match, AWJ in comparison didn't make the same errors. Having said that, he was still a long way short of where he needed to be, and for that I would have dropped him as well, and started Itoje and Lawes with Henderson on the bench for the second test.

AWJ did have a good second test, not great though.... When others around him were losing their heads a little in terms of discipline (Vunipola and Itoje the worst culprits), he kept his, and helped to set the tone with that massive hit on Franks in the opening minutes. Put in another big tackle later in the match as well. We're used to seeing more from him though, and Lawes has played well every time he's taken the field.

POM was far more unlucky. Didn't have a bad game at all in the first test. However it was the correct call imo, Warbs was superb at the contact area in the second test, even if he failed to secure clean turnovers. Deserved or not, sometimes it still makes sense. Still feel very bad for POM to go from captain to missing out altogether for the rest of the series.

 

[Dabbler]

Personally don't agree re Kruis. He's a very good player, but he had an absolute shocker in the first test. His stats were pretty appalling in terms of turning the ball over + he gave away a couple of penalties & missed a couple of tackles to boot. Despite looking knackered alarmingly early in the match, AWJ in comparison didn't make the same errors. Having said that, he was still a long way short of where he needed to be, and for that I would have dropped him as well, and started Itoje and Lawes with Henderson on the bench for the second test.

AWJ did have a good second test, not great though.... When others around him were losing their heads a little in terms of discipline (Vunipola and Itoje the worst culprits), he kept his, and helped to set the tone with that massive hit on Franks in the opening minutes. Put in another big tackle later in the match as well. We're used to seeing more from him though, and Lawes has played well every time he's taken the field.

POM was far more unlucky. Didn't have a bad game at all in the first test. However it was the correct call imo, Warbs was superb at the contact area in the second test, even if he failed to secure clean turnovers. Deserved or not, sometimes it still makes sense. Still feel very bad for POM to go from captain to missing out altogether for the rest of the series.

AWJ was never near enough the action to get pinged!

 

[munstermuffin]

The thing about Warburton is we can't actually say he was the right call as he played against no opposite number and as a unit it was against a 2 man backrow. So the jury is 100% out still on that 1

 

[dullonien]

both very valid points...

 

[McTallshort]

As an English nut living in Wales, I absolutely love the Lions - it's the only time I get to cheer for the same team as everyone else. I take issue with quite a few things that Gatland has done on this tour:

1. Not taking more Scots. The Scottish players are coming good and it's a crying shame that many Scottish fans are feeling pretty indifferent to the Lions. Watson, Russell and Taylor all might have been interesting picks. While I would usually take Launchbury over Jonny Gray on this year's 6N form, in the name of making the Lions truly representative, I'd give it to Jonny. AWJ shouldn't be on the tour, either on his 6N form or on what he's done in NZ. He's there on reputation alone.

2. The call-up of the 6. Devalued the shirt.

3. Not giving players who have been the best in the shirt on the tour a test start. Lawes has been head and shoulders above AWJ and Henderson hasn't been far behind him. I'd therefore have played both in the 2nd test after AWJ and Kruis bombed in the first test. Ditto McGrath and Marler - both have played better than Mako this tour. A lions tour comes just once every 4 years. It's just not fair to pick favourites who aren't playing that well.

4. Warburton as captain. He played well in the second test, but I don't agree with making him captain twice when that honour was denied to BOD and POC - both of whom were far superior players.

Never mind all that. I'll be in the Halfway cheering on the LADZ for all I'm worth tomorrow.

Last time they put a load of scots in to make it representative was in 93 and most ended up in the midweek team showing no interest and getting ****** every night. Places need to be earned not given

 

[Reiser99]

You can't deny that the ABs were much less dominant at the breakdown in the 2nd test. That needed to happen; maybe partly down to the red, but Warbs also played a (unflashy) role there. Bit of a leap of faith by Gatland, but he knows Warbs and trusted that he was ready to do a job. He put his neck on the line and it's judgement calls like that where he earns his money.

What after Kaino went off and they were down to 14 men? Even BoD publicly took a swipe saying Warburton was in a great position to see all of the penalties and events implying he was standing back not getting involved. Now they may not be the best of friends, but for an ex-player like BoD to be that critical publicly suggests it was more than once or twice.

 

[McTallshort]

30-12 All Blacks putting the bet on shortly

 

[Regan]

What after Kaino went off and they were down to 14 men? Even BoD publicly took a swipe saying Warburton was in a great position to see all of the penalties and events implying he was standing back not getting involved. Now they may not be the best of friends, but for an ex-player like BoD to be that critical publicly suggests it was more than once or twice.

Finally someone with sense. Sure that red card was deserved but fmd the Lions did themselves with no favors in tjht game, with that performance,.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Everyone is very pessimistic here. And I'll follow suit. I don't see this being all that close by the end of it, I can see the Lions giving alot of passion, alot of fire, but not being upto it.
At Eden Park, New Zealand are going to be up for this. No changes is a dangerous tactic when you've only scrapped past 14 men, who made their own mistakes.
I'm going to say NZ by around 12-14, last 20 minute flurry, might go to around 18 points.

 

[The Jones Boy]

You can't deny that the ABs were much less dominant at the breakdown in the 2nd test.

Nobody's denying it.
If the Lions played with a blindside flanker missing the AB's would run up a cricket score.

It needed to happen; maybe partly down to the red, but Warbs also played a (unflashy) role there.

I disagree.
It was completely down to the red and with Kaino off the park after 20 minutes Warbs came into his own and we were struggling at the breakdown.
The previous week we never heard a peep out of Warburton.
If Kaino stays on the park this week we won't hear a peep out of Warburton again.

As for Kruis, damn unlucky. I think it was obvious to all that Itoje was going to come in, so maybe last week's weather forecast saved AWJ. Not too many coaches would change a team that's beaten the ABs.

There were clear circumstances the Lions could take plenty of advantage from last week.
If the AB's don't mimic that recklessness then we should be fine and continue to dominate the contact area as we did in the first test.
I wouldn't read too much into the 2nd test.
It was a very unusual set of circumstances.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lions to win 15-6

 

[The Jones Boy]

Lions to win 15-6

Thats the spirit.
No point to get up in the morrning if you think you're going to lose.

 

[bushytop]

Lions by referee decision

 

[ncurd]

Lions by referee decision

Might as well hope for another 1 in 50 years occurance....its the only way we'll win.

As to getting up, eh I'll be up then anyway might as well put the match on.

 

[General Melchett]

Last time they put a load of scots in to make it representative was in 93 and most ended up in the midweek team showing no interest and getting ****** every night. Places need to be earned not given

Totally different era. Getting ****** on tours in those days was par for the course irrespective of nationality.
Selecting on merit trumps everything else.

 

[General Melchett]

The acid test on Warbs will be how he does tomorrow when facing a full pack. I expect the ABs to be seriously pumped up and to get a similar result as in the first test.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The acid test on Warbs will be how he does tomorrow when facing a full pack. I expect the ABs to be seriously pumped up and to get a similar result as in the first test.

Most AB players are always on a pump if you know what i mean......