Swing Low, Sweet Chariot

[Kiwiwomble]

I'm not wading in on Swing Low except to say that it's a dull tune I'd be happy never to hear again.

But where do some of these protests end? Flower of Scotland overtly celebrates the Scots beating the English at Bannockburn. As an Englishman at a Calcutta Cup match why should I have to listen to that? Why should the Scots be able to celebrate a victory over England before games against Wales, Argentina.....

The Calcutta Cup itself was named after a sports club formed by British expats. No doubt many of those will have had appallingly paid Indian servants working in dire conditions. Should the trophy be returned and the contest renamed?

I had no issue with Colston's statue being removed - his slavery profiteering should disbar him from being celebrated irrespective of his subsequent philanthropy. But having opened that door I have no idea where the line is drawn.

the way it has been explained to me, not this exact example but similar, that victory and the connected song didn't lead to hundreds of years of discrimination (at least not in the same way as POC have had to endure). It was a "fair" fight between two consenting counties

if a song reminds people of the abhorrent acts of slavery and the ongoing discrimination going on in the world then singing it should be stopped, IMO

I've seen people elsewhere use the "its only a song, it cant actually hurt people" defense...we, conversely, if its only a song, why does it matter so much to people? surely stopping people feeling like **** should take precedence over our own enjoyment of something...im not sure how people can enjoy something knowing it makes other people feel bad

finally, im not a PoC, so im in no place to tell them they are not being discriminated against, if they tell me they are we have to take them at the word and address it

 

[Bada-Bing!]

POC - thought you were talking about Paul O'Connell at first.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...kes-me-feel-uncomfortable-englands-maro-itoje

 

[McTallshort]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...kes-me-feel-uncomfortable-englands-maro-itoje

Well that's it for me then it doesn't get sung.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/its-...ludlam-wants-swing-low-sweet-chariot-to-stay/

A different perspective from ludlam

I'm defo with him on this

 

[Yulia]

Yeh, get rid of "God save the Queen" and keep it for Royal occasions only. Dullard tune and lyrics and uninspiring IMO.

I vote for Bohemian Rhapsody as our new National Anthem.

Or this one :


Politically correct in every sense!!

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I see you and i raise. In fact, I'm all in.

https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...oNlg-lwXaW2LVFdavCjX5jRwyK02kTkAr0kS9GAkRmpGA

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I see you and i raise. In fact, I'm all in.

https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...oNlg-lwXaW2LVFdavCjX5jRwyK02kTkAr0kS9GAkRmpGA

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ******* hell

 

[BiggusLaddus]

The Guardian is a bountiful well of absurdity.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/thomas-the-tank-engine-children-parents

 

[TRF_heineken]

Seems to me like England is a bit behind South Africa on a similar issue.

Take our Current National Anthem: Nkosi Sikelel'i Afrika

Which is sung in 4 of the 11 official languages, including English and Afrikaans. prior to 1994 our National Anthem was "Die Stem", afrikaans for "The Voice". Now this song was written prior to the Apartheid regime, while South Africa was still a colony under England's rule.

Then after 1994, there was a lot of issues with the Anthem as it was only sung in Afrikaans or English (depending) on the event and because of that had a stigma of being part of Apartheid. Then Nelson Mandela gave the order not to abolish it, but rather to incorporate it with Nkosi Sikelel'i Afrika, because if you look at the wording of both songs, they are basically a prayer to God to bless the land and it's people.

Now while there were (and still are) some people who want to remove the Afrikaans part of the song there is no malice or racism in any of the wording, and at a Rugby game specifically, the Afrikaans and English part is being sung a bit louder than the rest of the anthem.

I guess the point I'm trying to make, is that all the current/recent protests/riots/marches about racism that happened 30+ years ago, to me makes little to no sense. There are better ways to get your point across to the other spectrum than through violence and rage. And the thing is, if anything, the other parties (who used to have the brand as being racist just because of their skin colour), are way more sympathetic to the cause than what is made out.

Yes, every race will still have a little group of outright racists, trying to cling on to their stupid ideology, but they are severely low in numbers.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Well the anthem is celebrating an expensive unelected Head of State so of course it should go as it's offensive to Republicans who have no choice but to pay their taxes to support the RF.

Replace it with Land of Hope & Glory. Or maybe not - wider bounds and making mightier yet all smacks of international power and empire building with all the connotations that brings (don't forget it was written pre WWI).

Jerusalem then. Except no one knows what it really means, but there's bound to be scope for offence in there somewhere.

Now reading that the BBC is considering dropping Land of Hope and Glory and Rule Britannia from the last night of the Proms due to BLM concerns.

 

[ncurd]

Now reading that the BBC is considering dropping Land of Hope and Glory and Rule Britannia from the last night of the Proms due to BLM concerns.

Citation Needed

Sorry sounds like banning Christmas/Poppies right wing propaganda

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Citation Needed

Sorry sounds like banning Christmas/Poppies right wing propaganda

Not a paper I like quoting ...

BBC 'is considering dropping Rule Britannia from the Proms'

Dalia Stasevska, who is conducting the Last Night of the Proms in London on September 12, is said to believe 'a ceremony without an audience is the perfect moment to bring change.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Rule Britannia faces axe in BBC’s ‘Black Lives Matter Proms’

The BBC is discussing whether to drop Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory from the Last Night of the Proms in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement.

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Citation Needed

Sorry sounds like banning Christmas/Poppies right wing propaganda

Story's in the Times and Mail among others.

Rule Britannia faces axe in BBC’s ‘Black Lives Matter Proms’

The BBC is discussing whether to drop Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory from the Last Night of the Proms in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement.

www.thetimes.co.uk

Apparently the Finnish conductor is "keen to modernise the evening's repertoire and reduce the patriotic elements".

 

[ncurd]

Yeah but that doesn't mean dropping the bombastic end that's a quote probably moved drastically out of the context of what it meant.

It being in the Mail is probably a sign of bullshit more than anything else. Their entire stock and trade is right wing reactionary bullshit with barest hint of truth. I can't read more than the first couple paragraphs in the Times but it certainly didn't say removing those elements from it.

 

[BiggusLaddus]

First paragraph of the Sunday Times article:

"The BBC is discussing whether to drop Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory from the Last Night of the Proms in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement."

 

[ncurd]

First paragraph of the Sunday Times article:

"The BBC is discussing whether to drop Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory from the Last Night of the Proms in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement."

Ummm yeah but nowhere in the quotes does anyone actually say that (same with the Mail article) it's an infered statement from an unnamed BBC source stating ""keen to modernise the evening's repertoire and reduce the patriotic elements".

This is basic media literacy find the actual quote and source and see if matches the story being told. In this case it definitely reads a one source and blowing it wildly out of proportion to what was being said.

 

[ncurd]

Just for reference reducing the patriotic elements could mean not decking out the singer in the Union Flag, changing the arrangement (and that is normal for the Proms), cutting non iconic songs and at the extreme end removing them.

 

[mdaclarke]

Story's in the Times and Mail among others.

Rule Britannia faces axe in BBC’s ‘Black Lives Matter Proms’

The BBC is discussing whether to drop Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory from the Last Night of the Proms in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement.

www.thetimes.co.uk

Apparently the Finnish conductor is "keen to modernise the evening's repertoire and reduce the patriotic elements".

What right does a foreign national have to tell the British people whether they should be patriotic or not.

If the BBC do this it will back fire majorly

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Orchestral versions will be played - tunes but no lyrics.