Super rugby pecking order

[mdaclarke]

There is still a gap between NZ and the rest but I don't think it's quite as big as last year. The games seem a lot closer this year.

There is a clear pecking order in Super Rugby

NZ
big gap
South Africa / Argentina
lesser gap
Australia
big gap
Japan

 

[smartcooky]

Here is a merit table (teams in order of actual points) as of today. Keep in mind that not all teams have played the same number of games; the is a disparity of up to two game)

If this image doesn't work for you, here is a link

https://www.dropbox.com/s/il3mbxhjvs6yrqt/merit-table.png?raw=1

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Canes/Saders
HUGE GAP
Chiefs/Highlanders/Lions (yes, Lions)
Rest of South African Conference*
Blues
Tahs
Rebels
Brumbies/Reds
SWs

*Sharks are a weird one. On a good day they could probably give the top tiers team a fair run for their money AND lose convincingly to the sunwolves the next week.

 

[mdaclarke]

Here is a merit table (teams in order of actual points) as of today. Keep in mind that not all teams have played the same number of games; the is a disparity of up to two game)

If this image doesn't work for you, here is a link

https://www.dropbox.com/s/il3mbxhjvs6yrqt/merit-table.png?raw=1

I am aware of the table. However it is skewed by the fact that the New Zealanders have to play each other twice and the Australians play each other twice and also play the Sunwolves twice.

I'm more interested in the inter country results.

 

[AM_Bokke]

Meh.

Crusaders, Hurricanes and Blues are the historical top NZ sides. Blues are just bad right now, which is not good for rugby in NZ. League anyone?

Bulls, Stormers, Sharks, Waratahs, Brumbies and Reds more or less sit right under those three sides historically. Stormers and Sharks have been unlucky to an extent with playoffs and finals.

Highlanders and Chiefs are smaller than the other three NZ sides and the Lions have had their issues. Rebels, Sunwolves and Jags are new.

Super Rugby is basically competitive but long term I would be worried about the Brumbies and the Rebels ability to support themselves.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Canes/Saders
HUGE GAP
Chiefs/Highlanders/Lions (yes, Lions)
Rest of South African Conference*
Blues
Tahs
Rebels
Brumbies/Reds
SWs

*Sharks are a weird one. On a good day they could probably give the top tiers team a fair run for their money AND lose convincingly to the sunwolves the next week.

can we really use CAPS and Bold the gap between the canes/saders and the highlanders/chiefs?....landers have beaten the saders this year and were right in it against the canes for a fair chunk, lets not get carried away.

Who watched the sunwolves game? they were great, i for one hope its a bit of a turning point, hope they get a bit of belief, also keep in mind they scored some good points against the brumbies and tahs...learning to tackle is easier than scoring points

 

[SomeOke]

I don't think there are any huge gaps, Canes and Saders are the best teams no doubt but they have looked vulnerable at times (Bulls beat Hurricanes first game, and Sharks came very very close in Wellington), the Saders almost went down to the Tahs last week.

I'd say the power rankings have it right, Saders / Canes are top dogs, Chiefs / Landers not to far behind, but any of the Bulls / Sharks / Lions even Jaguares have a shot and of being highly disruptive, I haven't watched enough of the Tahs or Rebels to comment.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Don't really see the point of this ****-swinging competition of who is better than thou. All it does is make the upset victories so much sweeter. And people tend to forget certain things/issues with each team that has a massive effect on their performance.

Take the Bulls as an example, brand new coach, brand new style of play, brand new team where they already had 13 players make their Super Rugby debut this season. Yet they are performing above everybody's expectations, getting wins against the Hurricanes, Sharks (twice) and Stormers, all teams they have been suffering against.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

can we really use CAPS and Bold the gap between the canes/saders and the highlanders/chiefs?

Caps, bold AND italics!
I used that to differentiate it from the teams, not to enhance the gap.
I still think the gap between those two and the rest is pretty big, as in if they play any other team on a neutral ground they will win at least 7/8 out of 10 games. Speculating, of course.

 

[Brigantine]

Who watched the sunwolves game? they were great, i for one hope its a bit of a turning point, hope they get a bit of belief, also keep in mind they scored some good points against the brumbies and tahs...learning to tackle is easier than scoring points

I watched the 2nd half. Unfortunately I can't see this as a turning point. This was their last game of the season in Japan (and their record playing overseas is appalling), and after this weekend they lose their head coach. (he has national duty. Temporary head coaches: Tony Brown and Scott Hansen). The 3 new players they just signed have zero SR caps between them (and only 4 test caps). Most of all, they've already been in this position after they destroyed the Blues last season, and that wasn't a turning point.

As I said at the start, they had all the stars aligning in their favour for this year, and they have no excuses for a poor season. If they win more than 1 or 2 games on their final 6 week tour, it will be very surprising.

If the Sunwolves are going to turn the corner, I think it will only happen *after* the RWC, when they start making strategic decisions based on what's good for the club, and not as mainly a development tool for the national team. (That is, if they still have a license!)

 

[SomeOke]

Sunwolves will never be successful until they sort out whatever politics is going on behind the scenes.

Last year they changed their line up every year and I thought it might be the coaches, this year we see a change of coaches and nothing has changed. Sometimes Tamura starts, sometimes it's Parker, sometimes it's Nakamura, and I'm pretty sure they've played Emery and Tatekawa at 10 as well. Thats ONE position, and they can't get any consistency, same goes for the rest of there backs, sometimes it's Nagare (the captain supposedly) sometimes it's Tanaka sometimes it's Uchida (just at 9). The rest of their backs, with the sole exception of Little since he's started playing, shuffle on a weekly basis.

I play fantasy quite seriously and therefore study line ups every week and something is screwy. No team can achieve consistency if they change their line up every single week, I don't know if it has to do with their domestic league policy or it has something to do with with national side but no team can achieve success under these conditions I'm sorry.

I'm not sure if Jamie Joseph knew what he was getting into but it's no way to run a team. They will win the odd game because they are essentially a barbarian side.

 

[Brigantine]

Oh, Jamie Joseph sure knew what he was getting into with the Sunwolves, because he was already the head coach of Japan! He's fully on board with the politics.

Even when it comes to test matches, he's said he doesn't care about results, he's managing everything solely based on what is the best preparation for the RWC. Though it's quite unfortunate/annoying how that apparently means never playing the same line-up more than twice...

 

[mania]

NZ
big gap
South Africa / Argentina
lesser gap
Australia
big gap
Japan

sunWolves are doing way better than Aus
should be
big gap
Japan
another gap
Australia

 

[mania]

I don't think there are any huge gaps, Canes and Saders are the best teams no doubt but they have looked vulnerable at times (Bulls beat Hurricanes first game, and Sharks came very very close in Wellington), the Saders almost went down to the Tahs last week..

agree whilst theres a huge gap on paper on the field nz teams need to be wary of SA teams. and i think they are. kiwi's who are international class will lift their game when playing saffa's.
sharks and lions have given the canes a real wakeup and i hope the canes have heeded that lesson in that you cant play badly and expect to win.
this is why SA cannot be allowed to leave super. SA teams are international litmus test that kiwi's measure themselves against against.

 

[GordoMac]

I think this all comes down to Rugby being the only game in town in NZ, that's why they're top, no doubt Australian rugby is struggling and i think it'll be a long time before they are competitive again, i love what Brad Thorne is doing at the Reds playing the young guys, it's the only way.... The Jaguares are basically the Pumas side so should be competitive and the Sunwolves are improving... South Africa are in between, the Lions are good but the other teams struggle away from home....

 

[mdaclarke]

I think I may need to put asterix

There is still a gap between NZ and the rest but I don't think it's quite as big as last year. The games seem a lot closer this year.

There is a clear pecking order in Super Rugby

NZ
big gap
South Africa / Argentina
lesser gap
Australia
big gap
Japan

Edit

NZ
big gap
South Africa*/Argentina (*except Stormers)
lesser gap
Japan
lesser gap
Stormers/Australia

 

[Brigantine]

Funny... the Stormers are sitting on a QF spot right now. (at least for a few hours)
[EDIT: Nevermind. I was wrong, they aren't. They should have been, but they aren't]

So are the Waratahs to be fair I guess.

 

[mdaclarke]

The way things are going there may be none or only 1 South African team in the play-offs

 

[SomeOke]

The way things are going there may be none or only 1 South African team in the play-offs

Really not that surprising, with 4 NZ teams probably going through it only leaves 4 spots. If the Jaguares make it, and the Aus conference winner obviously makes it, that only gives us a maximum of two teams. Our own fault of course we lost too many games in Australasia (especially Aus where we should have won more).

I still don't think the SA teams are that bad..

 

[TRF_heineken]

The way things are going there may be none or only 1 South African team in the play-offs

There will always be 1 South African team and 1 Australian team in the playoffs due to the Conference Leader rule for automatic qualification.

But I'd be wary of the Sharks. They are slowly climbing to the summit of the SA conference and have won 3 out of 4 matches against NZ opposition. Seems like they have the recipe to beat NZ sides and would be the dark horse during the playoffs, should they qualify.