Super Rugby: Highlanders vs. Chiefs in Dunedin (22/02/2013)

[nickdnz]

Ben Smith is quickly becoming the most over rated player in this forums history.

 

[austingtir]

You wont mind if i keep reminding you thoughout the season then?

 

[Darwin]

Ben Smith is quickly becoming the most over rated player in this forums history.

I'm just surprised it has taken people so long to recognize his greatness

I don't think he is over-rated either. People have just under-rated him for so long, and are only now realizing just how good he is!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

While I've always liked him, and thought him to be a great player, I've preferred Dagg at 15 for the All Blacks. With Jane out this season though, I think I'd prefer to see Smith at FB with Dagg on the wing, possibly.

I'm not sure Dagg is better than Smith any more.

I still honestly think Ben Smith is the best fullback in the world bar none. Im totally perplexed why the AB's didnt play him vs England last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTMcNfs366c

Could've been a try for the Chiefs a bit earlier (0:20) if Anscombe had passed it. Really should've been a penalty to the Chiefs at 2:20 also, as Gear was held but got back up.

 

[nickdnz]

I'm just surprised it has taken people so long to recognize his greatness

I don't think he is over-rated either. People have just under-rated him for so long, and are only now realizing just how good he is!

It's people just trying to get brownie points from you. You must be +repping people like crazy. Let's face it, Ben Smith is good enough but he's about as exciting as mince on toast. The position where I think he may be of some value to the All Blacks is actually centre where his vision and reliability can be put to good use, but if I'm honest I'd rather see Andre Taylor, Tim Nanai-Williams and Charles Piatau get the fullback spot before Ben Smith. I mean even his name bores me, he has no real pace for an outside back. He's like Leon MacDonald v2.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Ben Smith. More like Ben Hur; so EPIC.

Lets see if I get a +1 from Darwin..

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

On another note, does anyone know why Ben Smith's name is always Ben R Smith for the All Blacks? No other All Black has this...

 

[Darwin]

On another note, does anyone know why Ben Smith's name is always Ben R Smith for the All Blacks? No other All Black has this...

I can only assume it is because there are two Ben Smith running around the domestic scene, both playing the same position/s (Ben S Smith still plays for Bay of Plenty....). Ben S Smith also had a couple of seasons with the Highlanders, is a fashion designer, online marketer (http://billyelusiv.com/), and is also known as Billy Elusiv (and is a really nice guy too, as I met him a number of times when we were at Otago Uni...).

It's people just trying to get brownie points from you. You must be +repping people like crazy. Let's face it, Ben Smith is good enough but he's about as exciting as mince on toast. The position where I think he may be of some value to the All Blacks is actually centre where his vision and reliability can be put to good use, but if I'm honest I'd rather see Andre Taylor, Tim Nanai-Williams and Charles Piatau get the fullback spot before Ben Smith. I mean even his name bores me, he has no real pace for an outside back. He's like Leon MacDonald v2.

I don't think you are giving him near enough credit. Yes he is the most reliable fullback in the country, but he is also among the most dangerous - indeed over the last 3 years he has always been among the top linebreakers in Super Rugby. He certainly doesn't have the pace, power, or elusive skills of many of the fullbacks going around the country, but he still manages to break the line almost at will, as he seems to have a phenomenal eye for the gap. Interestingly scrum.com suggest he made 5 linebreaks in the Chiefs match alone! Almost every time he touches the ball for the Highlanders these days something happens - it may not be exciting for a neutral fan, but as I Highlanders fan I get excited every time he gets his hand on the ball, as you know something good is going to happen (the video above is a great example of this).

Smith looked very impressive for the AB's last season despite the fact he didn't actually get much (if any?) gametime in his preferred position. He has consistently out-performed Israel Dagg (and any other NZ fullback for that matter) at Super Rugby level for the last 3 years, so surely he deserves a shot in the 15 jersey at test level. I think he would make a superb test 13 too, and it looks like he is being groomed to take over Conrad Smith's jersey when he takes a sabbatical at the end of the year.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

It's people just trying to get brownie points from you. You must be +repping people like crazy. Let's face it, Ben Smith is good enough but he's about as exciting as mince on toast. The position where I think he may be of some value to the All Blacks is actually centre where his vision and reliability can be put to good use, but if I'm honest I'd rather see Andre Taylor, Tim Nanai-Williams and Charles Piatau get the fullback spot before Ben Smith. I mean even his name bores me, he has no real pace for an outside back. He's like Leon MacDonald v2.

seriously? in that youtube clip he made two line breaks leading to 50m+ runs....in four minutes...boring stuff that

You know you love him.

I would give up every tackle he's ever made for him to be better at scrumming and mauling....you know...what he's paid for ....sure he's a great bloke though

 

[Larksea]

Ben Smith can not be rated too highly IMO

Huge workload and lots of energy on attack. I think the best thing about him is his error rate, for the amount of work he gets through his error rate is tiny. I compared his overall stats to Toeava's a couple of years ago when they were basically the two best fullbacks. Their attacking stats were similar with Toeava having a slight advantage but Smiths overall error rate was less than Half what Toeava's was. That level of skill he has is very rare.

He's been very unlucky not to get more test gametime. His Form overall has been better than Dagg and Jane in super rugby but they have held their test starting spots ahead of Smith, even though his form warrants he get more than the odd run of the bench.

 

[Darwin]

I would give up every tackle he's ever made for him to be better at scrumming and mauling....you know...what he's paid for ....sure he's a great bloke though

It was lucky that that video stopped when it did, as if I recall correctly he was penalized at the ensuing scrum

I don't think he is the worse scrummager running around Super Rugby (there are a lot of Aussie props ) - he isn't Owen Franks, but he would still be a better scrummager than Jamie MackIntosh. I think he is still a serviceable prop at this level (if required), and his ability to cover both sides is handy. I still have no idea why he was on the bench ahead of Chris King, who likewise can cover both sides, but is a better player.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I thought you guys were talking about Ben Smith and just taking the ****!!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i'm put money on ben being able to prop...he's that good

 

[Draggs]

Ben Smith is quickly becoming the most over rated player in this forums history.

That would be the useless French showpony Chabal.

 

[Dizzy]

Ben Smith is quickly becoming the most over rated player in this forums history.

That sounds like a great TRF poll man!!...

And you can thank Darwin for that, he's pretty much the front runner of the Ben Smith campaign. You type Ben Smith, and he'll hear it, log on, reply with to your post and bulletpoint all the good things about this Highlander revelation.

 

[Dizzy]

I can only assume it is because there are two Ben Smith running around the domestic scene, both playing the same position/s (Ben S Smith still plays for Bay of Plenty....). Ben S Smith also had a couple of seasons with the Highlanders, is a fashion designer, online marketer (http://billyelusiv.com/), and is also known as Billy Elusiv (and is a really nice guy too, as I met him a number of times when we were at Otago Uni...).



I don't think you are giving him near enough credit. Yes he is the most reliable fullback in the country, but he is also among the most dangerous - indeed over the last 3 years he has always been among the top linebreakers in Super Rugby. He certainly doesn't have the pace, power, or elusive skills of many of the fullbacks going around the country, but he still manages to break the line almost at will, as he seems to have a phenomenal eye for the gap. Interestingly scrum.com suggest he made 5 linebreaks in the Chiefs match alone! Almost every time he touches the ball for the Highlanders these days something happens - it may not be exciting for a neutral fan, but as I Highlanders fan I get excited every time he gets his hand on the ball, as you know something good is going to happen (the video above is a great example of this).

Smith looked very impressive for the AB's last season despite the fact he didn't actually get much (if any?) gametime in his preferred position. He has consistently out-performed Israel Dagg (and any other NZ fullback for that matter) at Super Rugby level for the last 3 years, so surely he deserves a shot in the 15 jersey at test level. I think he would make a superb test 13 too, and it looks like he is being groomed to take over Conrad Smith's jersey when he takes a sabbatical at the end of the year.

I beg to differ here as Andre Taylor had a phenominal year last year and was clearly the best fullback in Super Rugby not just in my own opinion but many many others.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I thought Andre Taylor was a close second behind Ben Smith. Ben Smith was consistently better, it's just for some reason Andre Taylor got all the love? Probably because he hadn't performed until that season.

 

[nickdnz]

I thought Andre Taylor was a close second behind Ben Smith. Ben Smith was consistently better, it's just for some reason Andre Taylor got all the love? Probably because he hadn't performed until that season.

Or cause Andre Taylor scored phenominal tries (10 of them) and was dangerous all over the park, I even thought his defense last year was good. He did have the odd habbit of being the greatest fullback one week and then fairly anonymous the next, however when he played well he was head and sholders better than Ben Smith.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Or cause Andre Taylor scored phenominal tries (10 of them) and was dangerous all over the park, I even thought his defense last year was good. He did have the odd habbit of being the greatest fullback one week and then fairly anonymous the next, however when he played well he was head and sholders better than Ben Smith.

I think most rugby enthusiasts would disagree with you. Andre Taylor certainly looked flashy, but Ben Smith was a better player all round.

Stats wise, Talor made 5 more linebreaks during the season, got good go forward 7 fewer times, and lost possession 8 more times than Ben Smith. Obviously these don't tell the whole story (indeed, if anyone could find some comprehensive stats that'd be good).

 

[Darwin]

I beg to differ here as Andre Taylor had a phenominal year last year and was clearly the best fullback in Super Rugby not just in my own opinion but many many others.

I'm sure many people would agree that Andre Taylor was the best fullback in Super Rugby last season. He was phenomenal at times with ball in hand, and scored several quite brilliant individual tries. However there is more to playing fullback than just making 'highlight-reel plays'. Taylor had plenty of good games, but wasn't consistent throughout the season, and there were a few obvious flaws in his game. He really struggles to link up with his team-mates when he gets the ball - he is bloody good with ball in hand, but he would be much better if he could link up after breaking the line. He got caught out of position quite a bit at fullback (though his speed helped cover up these errors most of the time), and he struggled a bit in decision making, especially when the pressure was on (I remember the Crusaders giving a particularly hard time one match). Many of these things are simply a result of a lack of experience at fullback, hence I expect he will continue to improve in these areas as he gets more experience in the position at Super Rugby level. As Nick has already mentioned his defense was actually very good last season, and I was really impressed with his defense against the Blues in the weekend (he was very quiet otherwise). I'm actually quite a big fan of Taylor, and wouldn't be surprised to see him a Black jersey this season.

I thought Andre Taylor was a close second behind Ben Smith. Ben Smith was consistently better, it's just for some reason Andre Taylor got all the love? Probably because he hadn't performed until that season.

Taylor got a lot of love as he scored some great individual tries, so made a lot of highlight reels. Players like that tend to get a lot of love from the general population. If you ask the general population they probably think Robbie Fruean is a better centre than Conrad Smith too I actually think Taylor had a bit of a breakout season with the Canes the year before, but strangely was underused, but he did step up even more last season when he had a bit more freedom at fullback.

Or cause Andre Taylor scored phenominal tries (10 of them) and was dangerous all over the park, I even thought his defense last year was good. He did have the odd habbit of being the greatest fullback one week and then fairly anonymous the next, however when he played well he was head and sholders better than Ben Smith.

I disagree. When he played to his best (which wasn't consistently) he was probably as good as Ben Smith, not better. Ben Smith had some quite phenomenal games for the Highlanders last season, where he seemed to break the line whenever he touched the ball (much like he did in against the Chiefs last Friday).