Super Rugby: Bulls vs. Stormers in Pretoria (22/02/2013)

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't see it at all this way.

Serfontein, F Venter and Wynand are 12's, not 13's. IMHO there's a difference in the 2 centre positions and all 3 these guys are prominent in that position.

As for 13. JJ is our man, he has all the attributes needed to become a classy 13, now he just needs to gel in that position. as for winger, we have enough guys there, no need to put JJ there, Mapoe is more a winger than a centre.

You might see this as conservative, I see it as progressive...

Then pack Serfontein up and send him to the Cape as we could use a good 12 with JdV past it and Allister seems to want a biggish 12 and is now playing De Allende who doesn't have the vision and timing IMO unless he somehow 'leveled up' over the off season.

Hougaard has been expected to be FdP Mk.II.
He simply isn't.

A backline containing Vermaak, Pollard, Serfontein, Engelbrecht, and Hougaard could do some real damage.
Just get a fullback and another wing!

Draggs, they have Visser as their back-up 15 who is dangerous with the ball in hand and looks to keep the ball alive. Perhaps if we were Bulls fans we'd be more hesitant to abandon the conservative approach.

Interesting that when FdP didn't get back to his best after a long injury in 2011. Loads of SA fans weren't all that unhappy to lose him and thought Hougaard was now the best South African scrum half.

When Hougaard got his chance to play 9 for SA, he got shown up to be a slightly quicker less powerful version of Ben Youngs. Nowhere near as good as FdP even when du Preez wasn't quite at his best at 2001 RWC, and he never will be nearly as good as du Preez. Good to see SA have realised this.

Pienaar better than him too, as is Rory Kockott (who wants to play for France now btw).

Yeah, I think most in SA are a bit disillusioned with our current crop of 9's but willing to give Hougaard a SR season and then either breathe a sigh of relief or move on. Pienaar IMO needs to play in SA or be left out. My prediction is for a BIG year for Nic Groom of the Stormers. I think he is the type of 9 we need with 10's like Goosen, Jantjies and Lambie. We'll see soon enough as he and Jantjies will get time together.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Then pack Serfontein up and send him to the Cape as we could use a good 12 with JdV past it and Allister seems to want a biggish 12 and is now playing De Allende who doesn't have the vision and timing IMO unless he somehow 'leveled up' over the off season.



Draggs, they have Visser as their back-up 15 who is dangerous with the ball in hand and looks to keep the ball alive. Perhaps if we were Bulls fans we'd be more hesitant to abandon the conservative approach.



Yeah, I think most in SA are a bit disillusioned with our current crop of 9's but willing to give Hougaard a SR season and then either breathe a sigh of relief or move on. Pienaar IMO needs to play in SA or be left out. My prediction is for a BIG year for Nic Groom of the Stormers. I think he is the type of 9 we need with 10's like Goosen, Jantjies and Lambie. We'll see soon enough as he and Jantjies will get time together.

Lol, Serfontein will get his chance, don't worry. But to get the season started in the best way possible, I can understand why Ludeke went with the team he picked. As Rob Houwing of News24 put it, the Bulls will gel faster with their more settled team as only 2 debutants are in the starting 15 and 12 of the starting 15 were victims of the loss against the Stormers in last year's tournament, whereas there are only 6 Stormers players in the team for Saturday that played in the prevouis game.

IMHO regarding Hougaard, I think we judged him too quickly with his transition to Scrumhalf. a classy scrumhalf doesn't appear overnight, and most scrumhalves appearing for the national team are between 26 - 32 years of age. He's now only 24, and maturing is part of being a good scrummie.

@Draggs, that backline you named does look good on paper, but Pollard and Serfontein haven't played SR yet, Pollard hasn't even played Currie Cup yet... The Bulls structures are placed to give the young guns the proper protection and to aid them in the transition. Getting the experienced guys out first, will help the young ones understand the pressure better, and what is expected of them.

I really like all you guys' enthusiasm towards my Bulls, I'm just as excited as you are, but you have to calm down, Jan Serfontein and Pollard will get their turn, when the time is right. a Start of the season against your biggest rival is not such an occasion...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think people are expecting a lot from Hougie because he has been around for a while despite being relatively young. Granted most of his time with the Boks and Bulls have either been from the bench or n the wing. He has the accuracy, he is a danger around the fringes but the thing is he is trying to be or is forced to be FdP and he just doesn't have the same vision or boot. He needs to clear quicker or take a dart when its on and use his own strengths IMO rather than try to fit into a mold that doesn't suit him.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think people are expecting a lot from Hougie because he has been around for a while despite being relatively young. Granted most of his time with the Boks and Bulls have either been from the bench or n the wing. He has the accuracy, he is a danger around the fringes but the thing is he is trying to be or is forced to be FdP and he just doesn't have the same vision or boot. He needs to clear quicker or take a dart when its on and use his own strengths IMO rather than try to fit into a mold that doesn't suit him.

Maybe the new laws will assist him exactly with that.

In the cheetahs warm up game, he didn't once make use of the box kick. and he had quite a few darting runs. Hopefully this 4-second rule is just what he needed to cause havoc...

 

[Gena_ZA]

"whereas there are only 6 Stormers players in the team for Saturday that played in the prevouis game." cause the Stormers were so depleted they almost played wth an U21 team, making that victory all the more famous.
I am happy to give Hougie a full seasoin at Scrummy and then judge him. Also other younster comming through in van Zyl, Reinagh and Groom

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

"whereas there are only 6 Stormers players in the team for Saturday that played in the prevouis game." cause the Stormers were so depleted they almost played wth an U21 team, making that victory all the more famous.
I am happy to give Hougie a full seasoin at Scrummy and then judge him. Also other younster comming through in van Zyl, Reinagh and Groom

yeah, Groom and Van Zyl have been named ahead of Duvenhage/Schreuder and Pretorius for the Stormers and Cheetahs respectively (and rightly so!) so it'll be interesting to see if Reinach gets the nod ahead of McLeod at the Sharks. The Bulls are ironically sitting with both guys with the inside track on following up from FdP (apart from Pienaar) in Hougie and Vermaak. Personally I'm backing Groom and Vermaak as the most complete 9's although Groom needs to take a step up and Hougaard possibly has the most 'potential'.

 

[Dizzy]

I reckon this is the game of the round. Regarding all the talk about Hougaard. The man is quality, and I as well have never really rated Pienaar. Hougaard is a dangerous player when given the opportunity, with the Bulls gameplan, he doesn't get his license to thrill.

I think the Stormers will be too good here, I feel they will carry on with their consistant wins from last year and pip the Bulls at Loftus!... Stormers by 5

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

20 minutes gone and Bulls leading by 3-0. It's very messy, line-outs from both teams not really well-organised and too much kicking from Steyn and Jantjies.

I was hoping Jantjies and Taute would bring a bit more variety, but Jantjies is playing like Grant: Hardly any passing to the centers.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Very, very important TMO call here. A kick ahead by Jean de Villiers was touched by Kirchner, making it a 5m scrum in stead of a 22m drop out. The ball crossed the dead-ball line after Kirchner touched it.

 

[Draggs]

Bulls and Stormers have been taking lineout lessons from us I see.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Wow, Jantjies has been **** poor so far. Not bringing anything on attack, missing all PK attempts. Stormers look more dangerous on attack when they actually carry the ball but that doesn't happen a lot.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

With 4 missed penalties by Jantjies, what will the Stormers do now? Give Taute a shot next time?

 

[Tony Manx]

I am sure that this is not the general rule but just turned on to the Bulls match to see a clear forward pass to JdV missed by the ref and a penalty given against the Stormers when the Bulls tighthead clearly was pulling the LH down on his arm........um?

 

[Draggs]

Where did that come from?
Stormers have looked very poor so far, Jantjies not having a great match.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

After 50 minutes finally a try. Stormers on attack for the full 10 minutes of the second half and Jean de Villiers scores in the corner. With Jantjies' poor kicking, I wouldn't be surprised if he misses the conversion.

Edit: Joe Pietersen who comes on for Aplon, takes over the kicking duties and converts!!! 12-7

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Stormers right back to the attack after the kick off and a penalty right in front. Stormers are playing like the Sharks now. Invisible the first 40 minutes and firing on all cilinders the second half.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Joe Pietersen with a second good kick and 3 points added. 12-10 after 54 minutes and we have a tight game again!

 

[Draggs]

Bring in Peter Grant to inside centre once he returns. Allows for Taute to start and still have a backup kicker.
Good match.

@Hein (a few days back). Yeah, Pollard and Serfontein are very young. I liked the look of them and that was more of a hypothetical backline in a few seasons.
Strong Bulls, Sharks, and Stormers make for a strong Springbok team. Eyes on 2015 Wales v SA final.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Wow, what a disgrace for rugby. Hougaard hits de Villiers on the head, de Villiers taps him on the arm and Hougaard brings his hands to his face, Bulls get a penalty and it's 18-10. Pathetic.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

There we go. This is the reason I find SANZAR's decision ridiculous to ignore a 23-man squad. Uncontested scrums, Argh!!!