Super Rugby: Bulls vs. Hurricanes in Pretoria (04/05/2013)

[Darwin]

Hurricanes: Andre Taylor, Alapati Leiua, Conrad Smith, Tusi Pisi, Julian Savea, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Victor Vito, Karl Lowe, Brad Shields, Jason Eaton, Jeremy Thrush, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, Ash Dixon, Ben Franks.
Reserves: Reggie Goodes, Ben May, Mark Reddish, Faifili Levave, Jack Lam, Chris Smylie, Tim Bateman.

Julian Savea back in the starting lineup, which is a big boost for the Canes. The other change in the backs is Tusi Pisi starting in the 12 jersey, with Bateman dropping to the bench. I'm not a fan of Pisi (and I don't imagine he has much experience at 12!), but I don't think this is necessarily a bad move. Bateman has been underwhelming this season, and seems to have completely lost his confidence in recent weeks. I'm not convinced Pisi is the man to replace him - personally I would have gone for Lee-Lo (as I think the Canes could use his physicality at 12), but I'm prepared to give Pisi a chance in the position (at least he is not at 10...).

Ash Dixon gets his first start at hooker with Matu'u and Coles out injured, with Reg Goodes covering hooker on the bench. I think the Canes lineout should be ok while Dixon is on, but if he gets injured the Canes are in big trouble (as though Goodes has played hooker at age-grade level, he is very much a LH prop these days). I think the Canes will rely on Vito jumping at 2 in the lineout again this week - I suspect they will get most of their own ball (as Vito is very effective here), but it is hard to do set-piece moves off ball from the front of the lineout. I'm not convinced with Lowe starting again at 7 - personally I would have preferred Lam's physicality against the Bulls. The Canes do have 5 forwards off the bench, and the likes of Levave and Lam could add a real physical edge later in the match.

 

[Helmy]

Hurricanes: Andre Taylor, Alapati Leiua, Conrad Smith, Tusi Pisi, Julian Savea, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Victor Vito, Karl Lowe, Brad Shields, Jason Eaton, Jeremy Thrush, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, Ash Dixon, Ben Franks.
Reserves: Reggie Goodes, Ben May, Mark Reddish, Faifili Levave, Jack Lam, Chris Smylie, Tim Bateman.

Julian Savea back in the starting lineup, which is a big boost for the Canes. The other change in the backs is Tusi Pisi starting in the 12 jersey, with Bateman dropping to the bench. I'm not a fan of Pisi (and I don't imagine he has much experience at 12!), but I don't think this is necessarily a bad move. Bateman has been underwhelming this season, and seems to have completely lost his confidence in recent weeks. I'm not convinced Pisi is the man to replace him - personally I would have gone for Lee-Lo (as I think the Canes could use his physicality at 12), but I'm prepared to give Pisi a chance in the position (at least he is not at 10...).

Ash Dixon gets his first start at hooker with Matu'u and Coles out injured, with Reg Goodes covering hooker on the bench. I think the Canes lineout should be ok while Dixon is on, but if he gets injured the Canes are in big trouble (as though Goodes has played hooker at age-grade level, he is very much a LH prop these days). I think the Canes will rely on Vito jumping at 2 in the lineout again this week - I suspect they will get most of their own ball (as Vito is very effective here), but it is hard to do set-piece moves off ball from the front of the lineout. I'm not convinced with Lowe starting again at 7 - personally I would have preferred Lam's physicality against the Bulls. The Canes do have 5 forwards off the bench, and the likes of Levave and Lam could add a real physical edge later in the match.

And a big slap in the face for sufferers of family violence.

Thank God Bateman has finally been dropped, though I'm not sure Pisi is the answer, either. It's a shame there don't seem to be many decent options at second five for the Hurricanes. Possibly Hayward if he wasn't now playing for the Force.

 

[nickdnz]

And a big slap in the face for sufferers of family violence.

Thank God Bateman has finally been dropped, though I'm not sure Pisi is the answer, either. It's a shame there don't seem to be many decent options at second five for the Hurricanes. Possibly Hayward if he wasn't now playing for the Force.

Pun intended?

Meh, to be honest you wouldn't suspend someone from their job if they were an accountant who was charged (not yet convicted) of domestic assault. Not justifying ever hitting anyone in your family, but its really not an issue for an employer to consider - even with a public profile. They were originally going to let Savea play last week after consulting his partner, who said she was happy for him to play. Don't see why we need to make an example out of him. What people forget is Sitivini Sivivatu and Adam Thomson were in pretty much the same situation - it got less attention and took a long time to fully resolve. If you punish Savea by dropping him it would be a pretty terrible double standard.

I'd still prefer Bateman to Tusi Pisi. Tusi Pisi is average as hell, don't know what Hammett sees in him.

 

[Draggs]

And a big slap in the face for sufferers of family violence.

Thank God Bateman has finally been dropped, though I'm not sure Pisi is the answer, either. It's a shame there don't seem to be many decent options at second five for the Hurricanes. Possibly Hayward if he wasn't now playing for the Force.

...ouch...

 

[Helmy]

Pun intended?

Meh, to be honest you wouldn't suspend someone from their job if they were an accountant who was charged (not yet convicted) of domestic assault. Not justifying ever hitting anyone in your family, but its really not an issue for an employer to consider - even with a public profile. They were originally going to let Savea play last week after consulting his partner, who said she was happy for him to play. Don't see why we need to make an example out of him. What people forget is Sitivini Sivivatu and Adam Thomson were in pretty much the same situation - it got less attention and took a long time to fully resolve. If you punish Savea by dropping him it would be a pretty terrible double standard.

I'd still prefer Bateman to Tusi Pisi. Tusi Pisi is average as hell, don't know what Hammett sees in him.

No, no pun intended.

Yes, but an accountant is not often someone considered important enough to feature on in an 'It's Not Okay' campaign. We don't need to make an example out of Savea, but I consider it a pretty terrible double standard for him to take a stand against violence then do it himself, no matter how small a matter it is being perceived to be.

It's not for the employer to tell Savea that what he didn't wasn't okay, it's up to him. If we want to go wider on the issue, it's also up to the New Zealand culture to change its view on the manner. This casual shrugging of the shoulders to what happened, because his missus said she didn't mind and he had a cry on TV then missed one game, might seem like a small thing to the average Kiwi, but I only wonder what it would mean to someone who suffers abuse regularly? The All Blacks are viewed as demi-gods in this country, and there is often a spike in domestic violence after world cup losses, for one them to be properly accountable for what they've done might speak to someone who doesn't know any different than an abusive relationship.

I can see where you're coming from, I've always thought him to be a nice guy and believe his regret is mostly genuine. Sivivatu and Thomson should have been punished accordingly as well, and you are right that it wouldn't be fair on Savea to get hung out to dry when they haven't.

My biggest issue is with the NZRU, however where they've failed, perhaps Savea could continue to pick up the slack?

When do the NZRU stop coming out with half-assed excuses before they actually commit to their threats? We've been listening to how these All Blacks are more mature than their predecessors, yet stuff like this continues to happen, blows up and then is quietly swept under the carpet. It's almost as if one of the most powerful organisations in the country is helping to enable these attitudes.

And, I guess, to go back to the accountant scenario, if an accountant had been done for drunk driving, would he be stood down/fired from work? No, probably not. If an athlete is done for drunk driving, will he punished by his employer? Yes, probably. It's a different matter when you're in the public eye.

I know in my job if I did one thing remotely illegal I would at the very least have a strong talking to, if not, I'd have my contract ripped up, because of who and what I represent. I also know in my job I've had people break down in tears at my desk over domestic abuse, as well as having to assist abusers. What happened with Savea, and Sivivatu and Thomson, was an opportunity for us to look at and reassess our own attitudes.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Pun intended?

Meh, to be honest you wouldn't suspend someone from their job if they were an accountant who was charged (not yet convicted) of domestic assault. Not justifying ever hitting anyone in your family, but its really not an issue for an employer to consider - even with a public profile. They were originally going to let Savea play last week after consulting his partner, who said she was happy for him to play. Don't see why we need to make an example out of him. What people forget is Sitivini Sivivatu and Adam Thomson were in pretty much the same situation - it got less attention and took a long time to fully resolve. If you punish Savea by dropping him it would be a pretty terrible double standard.

I'd still prefer Bateman to Tusi Pisi. Tusi Pisi is average as hell, don't know what Hammett sees in him.

Agreed, it's the same with Oscar Pistorius, who is accused of Murder, which is far worse than Domestic Violence... If a guy is not convicted of a crime, then he's still innocent and should continue with his normal life...

That being said, He's a very potent machine, I just hope the Bulls will be able to stop him...

 

[Darwin]

While I would like the Canes to win, I'm picking the Bulls to win this one pretty comfortably. I don't think the Canes have the forward pack to stop the Bulls driving maul. If the Canes want to win they need to get the ball to their back three - Ndungane will have trouble stopping Savea if he gets a bit of space. Overall I'm picking the Bulls by 10-15.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Agreed, it's the same with Oscar Pistorius, who is accused of Murder, which is far worse than Domestic Violence... If a guy is not convicted of a crime, then he's still innocent and should continue with his normal life...

That being said, He's a very potent machine, I just hope the Bulls will be able to stop him...

The difference is that murder is a much more serious crime. The reason they imprison them before being charged is because if they do happen to be a murderer, we don't want them on the street, and if they aren't, well they still might be inclined to flee.

We haven't even heard what Savea did yet. While I won't be surprised if he has done something bad, sometimes I think charges can be a bit PC.

 

[sifplay]

Canes playing poorly, away from home, against a non-NZ team = Bulls by 10.

The Canes have the best away record at Loftus than any other Kiwi side mate

 

[sifplay]

The difference is that murder is a much more serious crime. The reason they imprison them before being charged is because if they do happen to be a murderer, we don't want them on the street, and if they aren't, well they still might be inclined to flee.

We haven't even heard what Savea did yet. While I won't be surprised if he has done something bad, sometimes I think charges can be a bit PC.

But how do you know he is guilty if he is not convicted yet? What if he is innocent?

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

But how do you know he is guilty if he is not convicted yet? What if he is innocent?

I explained that already...? "The reason they imprison them before being charged is because if they do happen to be a murderer, we don't want them on the street, and if they aren't, well they still might be inclined to flee."

That's the whole point of bail, to ensure they don't threaten society/threaten to flee.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Good win by the Bulls, they're starting to shape up