Steffon Armitage wanting to play for France.?!

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

From the the Rugby Paper Armitage is "Apparently" is looking to use a 7s loophole for the Olympics which would mean he could play for France XV.

Ben Ryan talks about Eligibility here.

ELIGIBILITY. As its Olympic Qualification next year, it means all players have to be qualified under Olympic eligibility rules and that means they have to have a passport for that nation. No exceptions. As you have seen with Halai's exclusion from the NZ sevens side to compete at the Commonwealth Games (they have the same eligibility criteria), not everyone that has played international sevens also holds a passport for that country. Qualifying on residency is a lot easier than getting a passport in nearly every competing country so there will be players next season that will not be able to play for their respective teams until they have a passport. Having seen at first hand the pacific players in other countries teams playing under residency criteria, it might now be the time to look at this globally and see whether three years is just too short a time frame to become eligible to play for another country. I haven't got a firm opinion on this but targeted poaching happens in other Olympic sports and this whole area needs a careful eye kept on it to see how it develops.

SWITCHING NATIONS. A ripple from this is a window that will also exist next year for players to effectively 'switch' countries back to a country they have a passport to. Ill try to explain this as simply as possible, so: If you haven't played for 18 months for one of the "capped" teams in the nation you have already played for, AND hold a passport for another country then you can play in next year's series for that country. Interestingly, once you make the switch, you are then available to be chosen for the nations XV's test side too. You cannot switch back. After this season, the 18 months will go up to 3 years and the switch can only happen in an Olympic qualifying event or the Olympics itself, so if you don't do it next season then its not again possible until the actual Olympics. If it I put this into a practical example, I will use Josh Drauniniu – sure you don't mind Josh! Gets you some airtime! He played for England 7s in 2011 and hasn't played for any other national England sides since. He holds a Fijian Passport (as well as a UK one) as was born and raised in Fiji so would be eligible for me to select if I wanted to and he wanted to. He could then play for Fiji at national 15's level. Let me just make clear that this is just an example and not a clever ploy to lure Josh to back to Fiji! I just know the timings in this example in this and it just illustrates the point and also shows you that players do exist out there in this -

See more at:
http://ur7s.com/news/ben-ryan-goes-...ything-you-need-to-know-#sthash.WRuGeAPY.dpuf

Will post TRP link when it comes up online.

Thought I should make a separate thread as I don't know if this should go in England or France.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ridiculous. Just utterly ridiculous.
Would have no respect for him after that.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I've you've read the article could you say whether there's actually any info that suggests that this isn't just the journo extrapolating based on the new eligibility rules?

Does Armitage even qualify for a French passport?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I've you've read the article could you say whether there's actually any info that suggests that this isn't just the journo extrapolating based on the new eligibility rules?

Does Armitage even qualify for a French passport?

The rugby paper is one that likes to push the boat on these sort of things.

It sounds like it could well be a thought, whether it just agents trying to get England to pick him for the WC?

 

[ratsapprentice]

I know they do that which is why I suspect that's all it is - but you never know... but you haven't read the article then?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To become a French citizen you have to have been living, and working, in France for 5 years - he's been there 3, so far.
I'm presuming the 5 years as a kid living there don't count, unless he applied for citizenship then and got a passport/kept renewing it.

He doesn't have a French parent (Grandparents don't count, in this case) as his Dad's English and his Mom is from Trinidad.

 

[goodNumber10]

they are welcome to him...

 

[Thingimubob]

To be fair, doesn't look like England will be looking to play him any time soon so I wouldn't even mind seeing him change allegiances. That said, if he does get a French passport and make himself eligible for selection, he should have to make himself available for all 7's competitions that France want to play him in, even if that might get in the way of parts of his XV career.

 

[Big Ewis]

his work at the breakdown is obviously outstanding, but no one player can really help France under P.S.A. Yes, I know, it's getting old. But it is part of the topic here. As for him personally, I haven't read his biography looking for the little details that make him French, the ones that make him English. He's clearly neither, in style or identity. But in the scope of sports, he may be one or the other. This is a perfectly fertile landscape for an enormous internet battle which I'll never have the time for so I won't even sow the premises for it.
Rather I think it's interesting he'd pick France though...any team could use an immovable unit like him, but why not just go for England who have a real coach and gameplan these days ?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Because he doesn't want to leave Toulon, and the countries he'd be eligible for are England, through blood, Trinidad, through blood, and France, through residence.
If he played in England he'd definitely be in the EPS, if not the match day 23, but he wants to play in France which rules him out. Doubt he wants to play internationally for Trinidad, who are 52nd in the IRB rankings, so the other option is France.

 

[McTallshort]

7s? Really? Not gifted with pace or the fittest player on the pitch. Could see Delon playing it but not him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Steffon actually played for England 7s shortly before leaving for Toulon.
He was rubbish at it, to be fair. It was nothing to do with his pace or fitness (despite his shape he's pretty rapid, at reasonably fit) but his positioning and general gameplay, as a 7s play, was nowhere near the standard. You could tell he was a XVs guy drafted in for 1-2 tournaments (can't remember if he only played London, or played in Scotland as well)
Not sure whether he played it as a younger man or not?

 

[Big Ewis]

oh right my bad it's sevens...didn't read the OP fully, my bad.
oh well then who gives a shiit ?!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

From my understanding of what Ryan says, if you do switch "allegiance" and then play for the 7s side then this makes you eligible for the XVs too, regardless of previous caps.

 

[Maverick1987]

From my understanding of what Ryan says, if you do switch "allegiance" and then play for the 7s side then this makes you eligible for the XVs too, regardless of previous caps.

I'd be surprised if this was true . Surely that loophole would be used more often if true .....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You can't switch allegiance yet - the whole passport rule is coming in because of 7s at the Olympics, which is why it's being talked about now.
If the loophole does exist then I really hope the IRB close it down before it's used even once. It's not hard to change the rules from "No previous caps for another nation, Residence of 3 continuous years, or at least one Grandparent" to "No previous caps for any other nation and a passport".

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd be surprised if this was true . Surely that loophole would be used more often if true .....

It is true.

This is a new issue - it has arisen because the sevens is in the Olympics, and as such it needs to abide by the Olympics' eligibility criteria.

 

[LittleGuy]

When reading Thisisamerrugby's interpretation of the new rules I sensed he beleived this rule only applied to 7's. Hopefully this whole area will be cleared up in the next while, I get having to meet the Olympics eligibility for 7's but there is no need for XV's to change alongside it.

 

[ratsapprentice]

When reading Thisisamerrugby's interpretation of the new rules I sensed he beleived this rule only applied to 7's. Hopefully this whole area will be cleared up in the next while, I get having to meet the Olympics eligibility for 7's but there is no need for XV's to change alongside it.

You can only become eligible for a country by playing for their sevens team - but once you've played for their sevens team, you are then eligible for every other team of that country.

 

[LittleGuy]

You can only become eligible for a country by playing for their sevens team - but once you've played for their sevens team, you are then eligible for every other team of that country.

That makes more sense, so obviously there won't be any front fivers crossing over but backs and to a lesser degree lossies could be eligible. I'm with Olly though this loophole is stupid and should be cut out of the XV's.