Springboks add some OOMPH to their squad for the Australasian tour

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Giving someone their first cap coming on in the 75th minute doesn't make you an adventurous coach. The only players who made their debut and got real game-time are Etzebeth, Kruger and Coetzee and those were forced debuts anyway with the injuries to Smith and Burger and the retirement of Matfield and Botha. He could have picked a more entertaining team by including some form guys like Lambie, Kolisi, Ludik and Pienaar in stead of sticking to the same old Bulls crap in Hougaard (better on the wing), Steyn (how many games does he have to **** up to be dropped), Spies (Mr. Sideways) and Kirchner (average Joe)

 

[SomeOke]

HM should start using Lambie at 15 as he will never be the permanent Bok 10 - not with Steyn, Goosen and the young Pollard coming through
Lambie is being wasted warming the bench and not even being used as a sub

Glad Flo is back, actually over the moon about it.
Duanne should just stay injury free

It's a waste of his distributing talents.

He deserves a shot at 10, Goosen has a lot of potential but Lambie has been waiting in the wings for too long. He needs a run at least to display what he can do. If it doesn't work then we can look at Goosen.

It's a moot point though, because HM will not drop Steyn. Despite him being decent in 2/5 of the last springbok matches.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I don't agree with Gena saying Lambie has no future as a Springbok 10. He has never had a chance to show what he is capable of. He made his debut against Ireland coming on with only minutes left, played full-back against the Barbarians to accomodate Jantjies at fly-half and he has been playing out of position ever since Michalak moved back to Durban. I don't just blame Heyneke Meyer for this, John Plumtree and Peter de Villiers are just as guilty for him being forced to focus on full-back.

I feel a coach should look at form first, consistency second and experience third. Apparently HM reverses this. Lambie has no experience at 10 so he won't play. Meanwhile he sits on the bench the full 80 minutes, preventing him from playing any rugby (he cannot play for the Natal Sharks in the Currie Cup due to his benchwarming role) and Morne Steyn gets his chance to mess up so many times. If we had a fly-half with 75% goalkicking success, we would have won against England (third Test) and Argentina (in Mendoza). The worst thing that could happen, was in the 1st Test against England. Morne Steyn scored a try

That try will be the downfall of HM.

 

[TRF_heineken]

You know I'd be much happier if we saw something like 10. Johan Goosen 12. Pat Lambie 13. Francois Steyn with JDV at 14. this way we know we have a fly half with 2 centres that CAN distribute the ball and add X-factor to our team. Let's be honest JDV hasn't done much at 13 this year for the boks, why not make a change at that position too.

HM said before the England tests that Johan Goosen would have been his first pick at fly half if he wasn't injured. I wonder if that is still the case.

Bottom line is, we need Lambie in the starting 15 and we need Morne out of the starting 22. Our team has no flair whatsoever

 

[psychic duck]

I think the Springboks are missing Jaque Fourie at 13. He is an experienced player who is more dynamic than Jean de Villiers who doesn't really gel in partnership with Steyn.

If Meyer can call up Francois Louw from England, then why can't he call up Fourie from Japan?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I think the Springboks are missing Jaque Fourie at 13. He is an experienced player who is more dynamic than Jean de Villiers who doesn't really gel in partnership with Steyn.

If Meyer can call up Francois Louw from England, then why can't he call up Fourie from Japan?

To call up a player who is contracted abroad, you need to negotiate with the club. Japanese clubs pay a shitload of money, usually for a short-term contract. Because of that, TOP League clubs are not willing to negotiate these terms.

 

[Icemn]

Nothing, he is playing good rugby for WP. I guess our new coach only wants big guys playing, hence Lambie sitting on the bench 160 minutes against Argentina...

stampkar... but let me not get carried away again...

my other big problem with SA is... selecting their captains... it always crap/poor players, that cannot be dropped cuz they captian... John Smith and now JDV... is it just me or can everyone see how crap JDV is in the midfield :? i'm not sure about his defence but his attack is poop... he runs across the field the whole game... he seldom passes (if he gets balls via morne steyn not opting to kick)

JDV is also a problem...

 

[SomeOke]

stampkar... but let me not get carried away again...

my other big problem with SA is... selecting their captains... it always crap/poor players, that cannot be dropped cuz they captian... John Smith and now JDV... is it just me or can everyone see how crap JDV is in the midfield :? i'm not sure about his defence but his attack is poop... he runs across the field the whole game... he seldom passes (if he gets balls via morne steyn not opting to kick)

JDV is also a problem...

I do think he's the best in that position.
Maybe I'm biased but who else do we have? JDV does defend well and breaks the gain line when he attacks, who would you select?

 

[psychic duck]

I do think he's the best in that position.
Maybe I'm biased but who else do we have? JDV does defend well and breaks the gain line when he attacks, who would you select?

That's debatable these days.

 

[SomeOke]

That's debatable these days.

I don't think it is.
He's not a creative runner at all but he's a strong runner and he does make momentum on occasion.

I understand the problem with basically having a first centre "basher" type player at 13, but I seriously don't think he's been performing as badly as every seems to think, also WHO else?
I'm not trying to be obnoxious but I genuinely think he is the best option. Everyone else is too green, and not only green but also not polished. Sometimes defence is the most important attribute in a centre, if you are going to put a young flair/ie/y/ey? player in at thirteen who isn't solid defensively against the likes SBW you are going to bleed tries.

 

[Icemn]

I do think he's the best in that position.
Maybe I'm biased but who else do we have? JDV does defend well and breaks the gain line when he attacks, who would you select?

it depends... on 13 i would play JP Pietersen... hell i'm very impressed with that Jordaan laaitie of the sharks...

you have Juan de Jongh also, but he is not confident when playing for the boks... he has the potensial though...

if your captain needs to be in the team, play him 14 or even 11... but not in the midfield, i'm sorry...

has anyone seen lambie on 12 yet :? i'm sure he can do a very very good job there... if lambie plays 12, maybe move fran steyn to 13... but i'm not a big fan of Fran Steyn in the midfield aswell... i'm sur his defence is ok... but he looks more of a fullback too me... prob cuz of his huge boot taht will suite SA game plan and clearing kicks etc...

like i said it depends... i don't understand why HM does not want to play Lambie :? is it cuz he too much of an attacking player :? i mentioned earlier this year taht i felt that HM will favour Goosen more over lambie because of Goosen kicking game and ability coupled with his running game... Cuz it looks like HM has indeed favoured Goosen... I think SA is going to lose Lambie and that will be sad...

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Okay... Here's a question for Icemn and others... If not JDV as captain, who is capable??? Let's look at the lineup we had against England

Mtawarira? Not captain material
Bismarck? Not captain material
Jannie? Not captain material
Etzebeth? Too young
Kruger? Too young
Coetzee? Too young
Alberts? Not enough experience
Spies? Not captain material
Hougaard? Too young
M. Steyn? Not even consistent as a player
Habana? Not captain material
F. Steyn? Too young
JP Pietersen? Too young
Kirchner? Not even consistent as a player

Other players we have are Bekker, Pienaar (could be a good captain if he was in the starting line-up), van der Merwe, Daniel (Not good enough), Strauss... We have Smith and Burger who are capable but both are still out injured...


Jean de Villiers is the obvious choice as our current captain.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Okay... Here's a question for Icemn and others... If not JDV as captain, who is capable??? Let's look at the lineup we had against England

Mtawarira? Not captain material
Bismarck? Not captain material
Jannie? Not captain material
Etzebeth? Too young
Kruger? Too young
Coetzee? Too young
Alberts? Not enough experience
Spies? Not captain material
Hougaard? Too young
M. Steyn? Not even consistent as a player
Habana? Not captain material
F. Steyn? Too young
JP Pietersen? Too young
Kirchner? Not even consistent as a player

Other players we have are Bekker, Pienaar (could be a good captain if he was in the starting line-up), van der Merwe, Daniel (Not good enough), Strauss... We have Smith and Burger who are capable but both are still out injured...


Jean de Villiers is the obvious choice as our current captain.

A player is never too young to be a Leader. Graeme Smith is a great example of this in world sport. But all the guys you mentioned doesn't seem to have the leadership capabilities. So based on the squad, JDV is not the best option, he's the only option.

 

[Icemn]

Okay... Here's a question for Icemn and others... If not JDV as captain, who is capable??? Let's look at the lineup we had against England

Bismarck? Not captain material

Other players we have are Bekker, Pienaar (could be a good captain if he was in the starting line-up), van der Merwe, Daniel (Not good enough), Strauss... We have Smith and Burger who are capable but both are still out injured...


Jean de Villiers is the obvious choice as our current captain.

i disagree, he would have been my captain... Bispark Du Plessis

Burger wouldn't have come close to a bok jersey if you asked me... but then again who else

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Bismarck du Plessis is the best hooker in the world but a hothead and has trouble controlling himself. He concedes unnecessary penalties and lacks leadership qualities.

 

[Icemn]

Bismarck du Plessis is the best hooker in the world but a hothead and has trouble controlling himself. He concedes unnecessary penalties and lacks leadership qualities.

i can basically say the same about mccaw...

i disagree... bismark leads from the front... you might not see it.. but he inspires the guys around him... i've seen it...

my friend, if bismark is not playing... the teams does not do well.. and i'm not refering to his ability as a player.. even the guys arounf him is not fuctioning... he has that factor about him... now if JDV goes missing today... play will go on as if he wasn't even missed...

 

[psychic duck]

Bismarck du Plessis is the best hooker in the world but a hothead and has trouble controlling himself. He concedes unnecessary penalties and lacks leadership qualities.

So was this guy yet he still led his country to World Cup glory.

 

[madflyhalf]

Sorry guys... I really can't understand the reason behind Flo's call up!

I mean, basing on performance (first 2 TRC)

- Alberts played fairly good in first test, anonymous in second test
- Coetzee played very well in first test, horrible in second test
- Daniel played anonymous in first test, but quite good in second test
- Potgieter played decently in first test, good in second test

So they are all on the same level.

Looking at covered positions:

- Alberts uses to play blindside, but covers well both 8 and 4 spots
- Coetzee is a blindside that can cover occasionally openside position at Super Rugby level
- Daniel is a openside that has good vision and skills to play 8 at Super Rugby level and maybe at test if given some other chance
- Potgieter is a pure blindside

I can see Vermeulen as he's a specialist 8-man, but why calling Louw, who's mainly a blindside who can cover openside, exactly like Coetzee, and dropping Daniel?
I don't think for his experience, I know few tests can make difference, but this is not the case, Louw has not that amount of caps that make you say "He will bring the experience this team need in the backrow" and justifying the calling...

 

[SomeOke]

Sorry guys... I really can't understand the reason behind Flo's call up!

I mean, basing on performance (first 2 TRC)

- Alberts played fairly good in first test, anonymous in second test
- Coetzee played very well in first test, horrible in second test
- Daniel played anonymous in first test, but quite good in second test
- Potgieter played decently in first test, good in second test

So they are all on the same level.

Looking at covered positions:

- Alberts uses to play blindside, but covers well both 8 and 4 spots
- Coetzee is a blindside that can cover occasionally openside position at Super Rugby level
- Daniel is a openside that has good vision and skills to play 8 at Super Rugby level and maybe at test if given some other chance
- Potgieter is a pure blindside

I can see Vermeulen as he's a specialist 8-man, but why calling Louw, who's mainly a blindside who can cover openside, exactly like Coetzee, and dropping Daniel?
I don't think for his experience, I know few tests can make difference, but this is not the case, Louw has not that amount of caps that make you say "He will bring the experience this team need in the backrow" and justifying the calling...

I'm pretty sure Flo is a fetcher?
Something no other back-rower offers at the moment, apart from a few that aren't up to standard (Stegman, Fourier) and Brussow who is injured.

 

[Draggs]

Heyneke Meyer has now since his reign added the following uncapped players to the Bok-squad:

Tiaan Liebenberg, Pat Cilliers, Eben Etzebeth, Juandre Kruger, Marcell Coetzee, Jacques Potgieter, Keegan Daniel, Coenie Oosthuizen and JJ Engelbrecht. That's 9 guys already that got caps.

then there's also:
Craig Burden, Duane Vermeulen, Johan Goosen and Siya Kolisi. That brings the total of 13 new guys to the bok squad in a more active role. Has this many players ever been picked in the history of Bok rugby?

All of these guys except Tiaan Liebenberg has had major praises by many during the super 15 season this year and deserve to be there. For the first time in 4 years there's a proper structure in the bok camp. the biggest problem Heyneke has had was the time he had with the players. He strives for perfection and with such a big squad coming together for the first time is not that easy to get everything working immediately. I think this break week has come at just the right time, and I hope the guys will rest properly before they start their tour next week.

Daniel was capped in 2010, but your point is still very valid.
Steyn is too slow for inside centre, leave alone outside centre. He really needs to realise that he isn't a 5'9" winger who can do 40m in 5 seconds.

Lambie, for me, is a future Sharks captain. John Smit regularly praised Lambie, so I'll take his word on it. Right now the Boks are really missing Juan Smith (less mental than Burger, more effective in 2010).

JP at outside centre is done. We have Jordaan at the Sharks who has greater acceleration and agility than JP. Serfointein looks good at the Bulls. JP du Plessis... lulz.

Some very good points made in this thread, I wish I was less tired and I'd add on further.