Spring Tour: South Africa v England -2nd Test. (16/06/2012 15:00GMT)

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

How the hell was that a yellow for Hask.

I know - he drove through the gate and pushed back 3 defenders. Kaplan no legs to stand on

 

[Icemn]

Come on England AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Saintjay]

You could see the numer 9 thinking please don't let Waldrom pick it up or I'm smashed. Try Wldrom no surprise.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

this is pathetic from England. No selection questions for Lancaster really apart from about 3 players

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

LOL, a few bad calls from the ref but both ways. Had a few things stuck (particularly the ball that got kicked out of the ruck that led to Wade scoring while the Barbarians were piling on the pressure near the England tryline) the Barbarians could have very easily taken this one. Was impressed with the way Wade stood up in tackles. Not sure that anyone really put their hands up to make the English starting XV ahead of anyone that started last week. Haskell, Waldrom and Wade the only ones with a case IMO. Maybe Wade could come in because of the injury to Brown? I'd also consider Haskell as a shot.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

With goode coming off at half time that could indicate we is on the bench...so

1.marler
2. Hartley
3. Cole.
4.Botha.
5. parling
6. Johnson
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan.
9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. Tuilagi
12. Farrell
13. JJ
14. Ashton
15. Foden

16. Mears or Gray?
17. Corbs if hit or doran jones?
18. Palmer
19. Dowson
20. care hopefully
21. Goode
22.JTH or allen - Strettle!!

Although Moyne hasn't played yet so maybe he's in?
Edit: Just seen that strettle is not injured and pulled out of game so he could play in the 2nd test so i bet he will be on the bench.

 

[Patchey]

Caught the very end of the Sky coverage and (as ever) Will Greenwood had some interesting stuff to say, he suggested a 10. Flood, 12.Tuilagi 13. Joseph and 11. Monye (if fit) line-up with Joseph and Manu swapping positions throughout the game. Any thoughts?

(He also said what he actually expects Lancaster to do is have 10. Farrel, 12.Flood. Apparently the Sky team visited the England training ground and saw them doing lots of work with a second receiver at 12. as well as a playmaker at 10)>

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Would be incredibly surprised if Tuilagi was on the wing, more likely to be JJ.
Will be interesting to see who is at 8/19, with Haskell and Waldrom both putting their hands up.
I'd stick with Morgan at 8 and Haskell on the bench, but I could see Lancaster having Dowson starting and Waldrom on the bench.

Think Care could/should be involved, but after playing the full 80 (which I don't think they planned) I'm not sure.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Have to disagree about that Stormer, most calls went against England, and there were some big ones such as being called back twice when just about to score tries and again when Haskell was sin-binned. Without these the score would have looked less pretty for the baa baas. I don't think England were good at all, but I still don't see that on any other day the baa baas could have won.

The only players I really thought did themselves out and out credit were Waldrom, Care, Allen, Lowe (now out of the tour presumably) Haskell and Youngs. Arguably Wade too, although a defensive mistake will probably have confirmed Lancasters view that he's not ready.

The pack was poor in general. Haskell showed his physical presence repeatedly and I really think that is invaluable for England. Waldrom was brilliant too but is unlikely to have leapt in front of anyone except maybe Dowson. Fearns has no talent for 7 and was anonymous, as were the front five too in my opinion. Joe Gray's poor lineout throwing will not have done him credit. However I was impressed with Tomy Youngs off the bench. I'd have him as an outside (very outside0 bet for a bench spot on saturday through his physical work in the loose.

Care showed that he's our best scrum half but he's unlikely to feature until the last test. Turner-Hall did everything fairly well, but again played like a long game today so is unlikely to come in at 12 or bench. Same goes for Allen.

I predict:

Marler
Hartley
Cole
Parling
Botha
Johnson
Robshaw
Morgan

Youngs
Flood
Joseph
Farrell
Tuilagi
Ashton
Foden

Corbisiero
Mears
Palmer
Dowson
Dickson
Strettle
Goode

 

[Nobblynick]

Forget that I'm a Qujns fan for a moment (!) and someone explain to me why Danny Care didn't start the 1st test and clearly won't start the 2nd. He's by far the form No. 9 at the moment as the prem final proved as did today's game albeit against lesser opposition. If he is still being punished for past indiscretions, why take him on tour if you don't intend to select him?!

 

[Teh Mite]

Likely because Lancanster is still cheesed off at him being a drunken, red-top magnet.

 

[Saintjay]

Forget that I'm a Qujns fan for a moment (!) and someone explain to me why Danny Care didn't start the 1st test and clearly won't start the 2nd. He's by far the form No. 9 at the moment as the prem final proved as did today's game albeit against lesser opposition. If he is still being punished for past indiscretions, why take him on tour if you don't intend to select him?!

To get him back into the squad and earn his place back. You have to remember that Youngs has been decent for Leicester and Dickson did o.k for England. Neither has done much wrong when you compare them to Care. For the sake of team unity and being seen as reasonable Care could not be allowed to just walk straight back in given his past behaviour. He played well today and has been said I think the orignal plan was to see who went best out of him and Dickson and give one of them a bench spot. That appears to have gone out of the window when they removed Strettle to cover the first squad.

 

[Darwin]

I like the look of the South African team much more with Lambie at fullback - England will have to be careful about aimless kicking this week, as Lambie does have the ability to organize a counter-attack from the back (where-as 99/100 Kirchner would simply put up a bomb...). I remain un-convinced about the make-up of the loose-trio, but it appears England don't have the loose-forward trio to fully exploit this.

 

[Zed]

England will have to be careful about aimless kicking this week.

It's a poor tactic & mystifying why teams still rely on this as some kind of game plan. Kick the ball & hope they drop it.. oh they didn't.. hmm try again! SA are just as guilty of this & I've also seen Australia in the last few years adopt this from time to time. Scotland are probably the most guilty of this. Must make their supporters see red, seeing good possession kicked away time and time again.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I like the look of the South African team much more with Lambie at fullback - England will have to be careful about aimless kicking this week, as Lambie does have the ability to organize a counter-attack from the back (where-as 99/100 Kirchner would simply put up a bomb...). I remain un-convinced about the make-up of the loose-trio, but it appears England don't have the loose-forward trio to fully exploit this.

Yeah, most people over here are over the moon with Kirschner gone although it's unfortunate that he got injured. But once again injury rather than bold (not even all that bold) selections strengthen the SA 22. Now I don't wish to sound nasty but Spies and Wynand Olivier have got to go one way or the other. Agreed on our loose forward trio not making much sense but we have a lot of injuries in the position and so do England (which is probably why we are getting away with it; although they were disrupting our rucks too easily) and with Brussow out of favor and Spies having the inside track I can't see it changing overly much so here's hoping Alberts makes it two in a row and Coetzee builds on an admirable performance considering his age and the fact that the debut jitters should be out of the way.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

England will have to be careful about aimless kicking this week, as Lambie does have the ability to organize a counter-attack from the back

Well we only have 3 players who kick aimlessly youngs, flood and farrell and they are all likely to start so i think lambie might be smiling at that thought.
I don't know why put England work so hard for possession and then just kick it away, we have been doing it for years and then the opposition just come straight back at us!
Then we work hard for turnover ball and then....kick it away! Bizarre!

 

[SomeOke]

It's a poor tactic & mystifying why teams still rely on this as some kind of game plan. Kick the ball & hope they drop it.. oh they didn't.. hmm try again! SA are just as guilty of this & I've also seen Australia in the last few years adopt this from time to time. Scotland are probably the most guilty of this. Must make their supporters see red, seeing good possession kicked away time and time again.

It's often tactically the best option.
It's not as simple as "aimlessly kicking possession away" often it's stupid but sometimes it works.

Put it this way, it's first and foremost a 25 meter gain in territory. Maybe they drop it (10%, maybe your guy retrieves it 15%, maybe the pressure from the quick winger forces a turnover on the ground 15%, maybe they are under to much pressure and they have to just kick it back/out 25%), now that's just an estimate but it can work.

Ask Jake White in 2007 he'll tell you.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Kicking is and will always be extremely important. In the S15 the top 6 teams are all among the teams who kicks most often. It's a question of being accurate at it and getting the decision making right; right kick for right situation.

It needn't be boring and if you vary your game it most effective IMO as the opposition have to cover the kicking game but if they overcommit if creates openings for a running game. What we do need to do is vary our game more often and not get bogged down as we are currently. They best examples for me is Boks 2009 when we did vary our game and the Reds in S15 last year where they were very dangerous ball in hand but between Genia and Cooper they were the team that kicked the most, but it was kicking with a purpose other than just not being sure of what to do with the ball.

That said, we have a lot to improve upon in getting the kicking accuracy and timing right.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Wait, Hold the phone!! what did I miss here??

Why are you guys now all of a sudden talking about the kicking game???

EDIT: *Insert sarcasm font*

 

[madflyhalf]

It needn't be boring and if you vary your game it most effective IMO as the opposition have to cover the kicking game but if they overcommit if creates openings for a running game. What we do need to do is vary our game more often and not get bogged down as we are currently. They best examples for me is Boks 2009 when we did vary our game and the Reds in S15 last year where they were very dangerous ball in hand but between Genia and Cooper they were the team that kicked the most, but it was kicking with a purpose other than just not being sure of what to do with the ball.

Exactly!
Kicking game becomes a tactical weapon if you can alternate it with handling one, varying your game and without giving reference points to your opponent's defence!