Spring Tour:New Zealand vs Ireland - 1st Test. (09/06/2012, 08:35 GMT)

[Darwin]

I'm looking forward to seeing Cruden get a decent run. Like SBW, Cruden is a substantially better player than he was a year ago, so I hope he gets the chance to show his worth.

Agree with this - though unfortunately for him it would likely be outside Weepu rather than Smith! I'm actually quite keen to see Cruden start one of these tests outside Smith to show what he has got at test level.

 

[Larksea]

now I've over the fact that Messam did not make the squad (for the time being)

I do hope Vito makes a good showing and wins the battle with Thomson to take over at #6

Really looking forward to seeing the three new guys have a go. I think I've said it a hundred times but it's quite rare to have three such young and talented players all Debut at the same time. With Form that demands selection rather than injuries or as part of a 2nd string side.

Apparently the AB's had a high intensity training yesterday and nailed all their plays with hardly any dropped ball. Who knows it may just be a smoke screen to worry the Irish, but if it was Genuine then the Irish should be Genuinely worried The All Blacks version 2012 look to be starting a new Chapter in a very good way so far in the buildup. Even though they are missing so many players they have that core of experience there and McCaw in particular looks and sounds very focused and motivated. They way he's talking looks like his experience and Mana will rub off on the new guys and lift them to the level they need to be at. Apart from that I think Conrad Smith has stepped up a level in terms of leadership. And Dan Carter seems very hungry to re-establish himself at test level.

 

[munstermuffin]

All I'm saying is Gilroy deserves a shot but Zebo does too.
Cant see the big issue on call and look Zebo might be awful on Saturday but at least give the lad a shot and find out

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I also think people are being harsh on Zebo. He has his faults, everybody recognises that, but his upside makes picking him worth the risk. In my opinion we shouldn't be arguing why he took Zebo over Gilroy, we should be arguing why he didn't pick both Zebo and Gilroy.

For what it's worth, I think Zebo had a better season than the Gilroy but wouldn't argue if the Ulsterman was selected ahead of him.

 

[Groundhog]

I also think people are being harsh on Zebo. He has his faults, everybody recognises that, but his upside makes picking him worth the risk. In my opinion we shouldn't be arguing why he took Zebo over Gilroy, we should be arguing why he didn't pick both Zebo and Gilroy.

For what it's worth, I think Zebo had a better season than the Gilroy but wouldn't argue if the Ulsterman was selected ahead of him.

I agree with this totally, they're both very talented young players who deserve game time but because of Kidneys selections they're always compared to each other and put across as rivals

 

[coonor]

Me and Deccie

But not one journalist or anything has called for Gilroy, and dare I ask next will Gilroy's development be effected next season IF he cant get past Bowe and Trimble?
Yes he will get gametime BUT it's evident that you have to be starting in the big games to get in Irish team.
But think people are harsh on Zebo his record this season is decent.
Heineken Cup: 5 appearances - 5 tries
Rabo: 19 appearances - 9 tries

Gilroy played 29 times this season scoring 6 tries - 3 in each Rabo and HEC.

Gilroy's tries per game this season = 1 Try every 4.83333 games
Zebo's tries per game this season = 1 Try every 1.91666666 games

Zebo's record overall - 25 starts & 8 sub appearances = 14 tries Average - Try every 2.36 games
Gilroy's record overall - 40 starts and 3 sub appearances = 14 tries Average - Try every 3.07 games

Is O'Callaghan except to this then? If your talking about the team now then fair and I do think Zebo is a very good player. I've picked him out as a Munster prospect since his U20 games. Imagine a back three of Zebo, Gilroy and Kearney. I actually think that would have a similar level of attacking threat as the AB back three. I think everyone has been comparing and rivalling Zebo and Gilroy for the whole of the season and now it seems that one has been picked over the other which most people feel is unfair. In reality we don't know if that was the case. For all we know Kidney could have been choosing between Gilroy and Trimble, with the latter edging it. While talking about Trimble what does everyone think of his exclusion from the test squad?

 

[munstermuffin]

Coonor. I agree the old guys that have served Deccie in their prime do seem to be exceptions and yes it is wrong. What Snoop said is something I'd 100% agree with. I'd have brought Madigan Gilroy maybe Dave Kearney and few other young guys even to give them experience of your as we need to rebuild.
Like personally I think it a blessing that Paulie not touring as we need to allow him recuperate 100% but also look at 2 lads in 2nd row. They both fully deserve shot and I don't fear about them 1 bit. In fact Donnacha Ryan's aggression will be major plus for us

 

[big ginger 8]

This is going to be my last comment on Zebo on this thread before the match. Maybe it appears as if I hate him I don't. I hope he plays well I really do if he proves me wrong I'll be delighted. I just don't think he's the right choice. You don't pick someone who's defensively fragile against the All Blacks unless you don't have a choice. I honestly think his attacking abilities are way overstated and certainly not good enough to make up for his defense. I would pick Fitzgerald, Earls, Bowe, Trimble, Gilroy, D. Kearney, McFadden and maybe O'Hallorn ahead of him. As I've said I hope he proves me wrong but we'll see.

Quite obvious that as ever that we're going to go after the breakdown and make it as messy as possible. Healy and Best are both pretty good for frontrowers at the breakdown, Tuohy is a proper enforcer lock and hits the rucks pretty hard while Ryan has plenty of experience at 6 as well and blows out rucks as hard as anyone I've seen. Finally both flankers have plenty of experience at 7 and Heaslip can make his presence felt there. Also Jaco Pyper is the ref the same guy who reffed the u20 match against S.A. and he obviously allows a good contest there.

 

[coonor]

Nigel Owens is ref...... Not a bad thing really!

 

[big ginger 8]

It is for me can't stand his lectures. Who's Peyper reffing then? Could have sworn I saw his name. Linesman?

 

[coonor]

It is for me can't stand his lectures. Who's Peyper reffing then? Could have sworn I saw his name. Linesman?

Peyper is AR and the guy who reffed Aus v Scot not the Under 20 game. Nigel does have a centre of attention problem but tequnically he's a very able referee. Clear breakdown interpretation, good refereeing of the scrum and allows a game to flow. I would say his use of advantage is a strong point of his.

 

[big ginger 8]

Peyper is AR and the guy who reffed Aus v Scot not the Under 20 game. Nigel does have a centre of attention problem but tequnically he's a very able referee. Clear breakdown interpretation, good refereeing of the scrum and allows a game to flow. I would say his use of advantage is a strong point of his.

I must be going insane about Peyper then.

Owens doesn't ref the scrum well. He's consistent in whistling it but that doesn't mean he refs it well.

 

[coonor]

I must be going insane about Peyper then.

Owens doesn't ref the scrum well. He's consistent in whistling it but that doesn't mean he refs it well.

The key to refereeing a scrum is to make it safe. I think that some referees take an approach that when a scrum collapses but the ball is available the game should continue but for me that approach is both wrong and dangerous. If that means the whistle must be used to reset more than desired, then so be it.

 

[big ginger 8]

The key to refereeing a scrum is to make it safe. I think that some referees take an approach that when a scrum collapses but the ball is available the game should continue but for me that approach is both wrong and dangerous. If that means the whistle must be used to reset more than desired, then so be it.

True but if the ball is shipped off quickly I think it's ok as the other players are actually going to get away quicker if the ball is gone rather than if it's simply reset. These guys are used to collapsing and all will know how to collapse safely. Anyway I think Owens is to fussy about some aspects and what I meant by him whistling is that I feel he gives a penalty too quickly and sometimes if he decides a scrum is dominant it doesn't matter what they do they can't get penalised.

 

[coonor]

True but if the ball is shipped off quickly I think it's ok as the other players are actually going to get away quicker if the ball is gone rather than if it's simply reset. These guys are used to collapsing and all will know how to collapse safely. Anyway I think Owens is to fussy about some aspects and what I meant by him whistling is that I feel he gives a penalty too quickly and sometimes if he decides a scrum is dominant it doesn't matter what they do they can't get penalised.

The reason that I would never play on after a collapsed scrum is because immediately once you allow play to move on the ball will be shipped away from the scrum meaning your attention is either on active play and therefore you may not realise if an injury has occurred as the scrum collapsed or your attention is on the collapsed scrum making sure everyone gets up unhurt meaning that you are likely to miss something while play moves on.

Fair enough, I think the scum interpretation just needs sorting all together with all referees.

 

[big ginger 8]

So apparently on Re-union (a N.Z. rugby program) they asked viewers about Ireland's chances giving the options of 1 win, 2 wins, 3 wins, "might snatch a draw" or none. 74% said none, 14% for "might snatch a draw" and 2% said one victory. I'm not going to disagree but I am afflicted by my optimism even though everything is telling me we have no chance I get progressively more optimistic the closer we get to the match and by the morning of I'll be certain of a win.

Irish Times preview of the match:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0608/1224317500015.html

 

[killer08]

Things seem quiet out of the irish camp, which is usually a good sign!

 

[bushytop]

Owens doesn't ref the scrum well. He's consistent in whistling it but that doesn't mean he refs it well.

Who the f**k does?

 

[big ginger 8]

Who the f**k does?

Are you taking this as an insult or something I never said anyone does Coonor said "good refereeing of the scrum" I said he doesn't it's not saying he shouldn't be ref because he doesn't not many doe ref it well. While barely any if at all ref it well Owens is pretty far down my list.

Forgot to mention one key injury. Paddy "Rala" O'Reily.

 

[killer08]

link for the game?