Southern Kings 2013

[TRF_stormer2010]

Cheeky indeed.

 

[Boggle]

Whilst I have no love for the man and his blatant arrogance, I mean a rule is a rule, you are not above the sporting body Mr. Cheeky.

I do have to admit, they found out only six months ago that they would be playing, not to mention the fact that the Rebels were afforded something like 10 foreign players, and even the Force are still allowed 3.

Obviously the argument they're making is that they are trying to build the strength of Rugby in the EP and this is a direct counterpoint to that very argument, but the reason no one is giving them a chance in hell to be realistically competetive is because honestly, they won't be, not without some sort of foreign backup, at least for the first season or two.

Like I said, I don't really like the arrogant prick (or particularly care about rugby in EP, although I guess I should), but if you look at the liberties some of the other "new" teams in the competition were afforded, you can see where they're coming from.

Sorry to play the devils advocate here, I know everyone just loves hating on the Kings, but rationally speaking I get why they're doing this.

*Side note
Just because I get why they're doing it doesn't mean I agree with it, to be honest I think the reason the Force and the Rebels are such perrenial strugglers is because they don't actually have the player base or systems to consistently produce enough excellent players in those regions, I'm not so sure the Kings will either, EP is one of the poorest provinces in our country, I don't think a season or two of Super rugby is going to actually improve rugby to the point where they're going to be competetive in the Super Rugby environment.

What that province needs is some actual money, and looooots of it.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Tend to agree with you Boggle

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah but the way they are going about it is absurd. I fully understand that they have had just about no time in which to get their act together but at the same time they were thrown a huge bone at the expense of the Lions. Did the Lions deserve their treatment? No. The Kings have been given a chance to have a go at it within the framework provided. And they'll get a chance to defend their priviledged position. That's more than a fair shot for them IMO. The fact that SARU made promises they coulnd't uphold without dropping a team doesn't mean the Kings get a free pass IMO.

Look the EC produces lots of rugby talent when you look at where players are born; Kolisi, Jantjies, Goosen, J Potgieter, Serfontein just 5 young guys who have come through recently and were bron in the EC but the same counts for Gauteng.The thing is the EC don't have the schools, the track record, the grass roots so to speak and these players go to grey college or whereever to get pro coaching at a young age. SARU and the Kings should rather have focused on laying the foundations looking forward 10 years (should have done this 10 years ago already but for cronie deployment and mismanagement) rather than trying to plaster over the inevitable cracks.

 

[Boggle]

Yeah but when you take an objective view on the whole situation, SARU are the ones who effed up, I agree that the kings don't get a free pass just because, but I also get why they feel aggrieved.

Don't hate on the Kings because the Lions dropped out, that was SARU, they're the ones who promised the Kings a spot in the competition, they're the idiots who were contractually obliged to get them in, like you said, the Lions will have their chance to promote themselves back into the competition for next year, and smart money will probably be on them to do that. But in my opinion the Lions were such a disaster at Super level that they no more deserve a spot in Super rugby than even the Kings do.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

For sure it was SARU who f'ed big time but the Kings can help what their actions are. Sure it's a difficult position and you want to be as competitive as possible as quickly as possible but they aren't making friends is al I'm saying.

 

[TRF_heineken]

My opinion is that the Kings are actually shooting themselves in the foot by ignoring SARU and the prescribed rules. Sure they are playing in the Super 15 this year and they are taking liberties. But by openly defying the Governing Body of the country's National Sport, will make them not being so kind in future plans and projects.

Why play overseas NON-SOUTH AFRICAN players??? if they wanted quality players, they could easily have gotten some SA guys playing somewhere in the world for most probably a better price...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

My opinion is that the Kings are actually shooting themselves in the foot by ignoring SARU and the prescribed rules. Sure they are playing in the Super 15 this year and they are taking liberties. But by openly defying the Governing Body of the country's National Sport, will make them not being so kind in future plans and projects.

Why play overseas NON-SOUTH AFRICAN players??? if they wanted quality players, they could easily have gotten some SA guys playing somewhere in the world for most probably a better price...

I would have really liked a combination of 1) veteran overseas-based players, 2) luring 'local' lads back that recently moved to other frnachizes and 3) giving out one or two developmental spots to local black players from the area.

You have
1) S Brits, E Joubert, R Pienaar, J Fourie, F du Preez, D Rosssouw, G Steenkamp, B Mujati, F Louw, A Claassen, G Vosloo, R Kockott, WP Nel, J Strauss, A Johnson, H vd Merwe, W du Preez, BJ Botha, G Mostert, B Botha, G Botha, CJ Stander, Q Roux, J Smit, J Muller etc etc to pick from...

2) E Jantjies, J Goosen, J Serfontein, J Potgieter, D Potgieter, S Kolisi and that's just off the top of my head..

3) and add Siyanda Grey, Mpho Mbiyozo, Stick, Mangweni and the like along with Watson and the 2 allowed foreign signatures and you have a brilliant team (on paper).

The reality though is that they probably never stood a chance as the window was so small to negotiate deals with players contracted elsewhere.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The reality though is that they probably never stood a chance as the window was so small to negotiate deals with players contracted elsewhere.

oh please! in Soccer they have a month in January and 2 months in June/July to do negotiations.

And that is for all team all over the world.

The kings had 4 months in a row to negotiate. and if they put the same effort in getting guys like Vergallo here, they could easily have gotten more SA players.

they are the biggest hypocrites ever! Saying that the ECape needs Super Rugby to develop the sport in the region, yet, they'd rather play foreigners than locals...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

oh please! in Soccer they have a month in January and 2 months in June/July to do negotiations.

And that is for all team all over the world.

The kings had 4 months in a row to negotiate. and if they put the same effort in getting guys like Vergallo here, they could easily have gotten more SA players.

they are the biggest hypocrites ever! Saying that the ECape needs Super Rugby to develop the sport in the region, yet, they'd rather play foreigners than locals...

I suppose they could have done more and that somewhere between what your post suggests and Cheeky's bleating that they didn't have time lies the reasonable expectation. Your suggest they had enough time to sign whomever but imagine the number of hours it would take to contact everyone and try and negotiations on a course with essentially putting together a team out of nowhere. We're not talking about 3 or 4 major transfers here.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I suppose they could have done more and that somewhere between what your post suggests and Cheeky's bleating that they didn't have time lies the reasonable expectation. Your suggest they had enough time to sign whomever but imagine the number of hours it would take to contact everyone and try and negotiations on a course with essentially putting together a team out of nowhere. We're not talking about 3 or 4 major transfers here.

Why not?

If they had 3 or 4 major transfers then they would've remained within the limits which SARU set out for them for foreign players. Instead of buying 5 foreigners, they should've bought only 2 foreigners and 3 locals...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Why not?

If they had 3 or 4 major transfers then they would've remained within the limits which SARU set out for them for foreign players. Instead of buying 5 foreigners, they should've bought only 2 foreigners and 3 locals...

I don't know if Parkes, Adongo and the French fellow qualify as major signings though? More like a couple of guys that might be SR quality who were drifting around and easy to pick up in my mind.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

"SARU misled Kings"
Kings president Cheeky Watson claims the South African Rugby Union (SARU) urged them to sign Argentinians as they would not be considered as foreign players in Super Rugby.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/SARU-misled-Kings-says-Cheeky-20130319

What an idiot!!!!!!!

 

[ratsapprentice]

Cheeky *******.

 

[Thingimubob]

How cheeky of him.


Sorry, I couldn't resist bet that one's been done to death! Isn't he Luke Watsons dad?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Now that we are at the business end of the competition, and with the Promotion/Relegation match coming up between the Lions and the Kings it leaves me in with a battle.

The Kings IMO succeeded most expectations anyone had about them on the field. there were a few blow-outs, but they won 3 games, and snatched a draw vs. the Brumbies. They were competitive in most games, and are showing some fight and gusto before the Promotion/Relegation match happens. My battle is, I don't know anymore if I want the Lions back in the Super 15... here are my reasons:

1. The Kings actually won matches!
2. Their stadiums are packed nearly every game at home. Both the Cheetahs and the Lions have had terrible attendance records.
3. They really impressed me as a unit and play a different style of rugby that is unusual for SA teams.
4. Their players can only develop from this point onwards.

What do you guys think?

 

[nickdnz]

Now that we are at the business end of the competition, and with the Promotion/Relegation match coming up between the Lions and the Kings it leaves me in with a battle.

The Kings IMO succeeded most expectations anyone had about them on the field. there were a few blow-outs, but they won 3 games, and snatched a draw vs. the Brumbies. They were competitive in most games, and are showing some fight and gusto before the Promotion/Relegation match happens. My battle is, I don't know anymore if I want the Lions back in the Super 15... here are my reasons:

1. The Kings actually won matches!
2. Their stadiums are packed nearly every game at home. Both the Cheetahs and the Lions have had terrible attendance records.
3. They really impressed me as a unit and play a different style of rugby that is unusual for SA teams.
4. Their players can only develop from this point onwards.

What do you guys think?

Agree with all of that. I think the Lions deserve a shot back in the tournament (as they didn't deserve to be booted out to begin with), but the concerns of the Kings being the competition easy beats have largely been cast aside - as I think others teams have done far worse in their debut season...

My only complaint is I hope Daniel Adongo would be used better - but I'll be happy to see him back at Counties if the chance arises.

 

[Gena_ZA]

There are some rumors of a Kings and Lions merger - that could work
Happy for all that the Kings achieved but sad how it all ended for the Lions
This is not a easy one - bet they will have to play out to see who is the best and take it from there

 

[TRF_heineken]

There are some rumors of a Kings and Lions merger - that could work
Happy for all that the Kings achieved but sad how it all ended for the Lions
This is not a easy one - bet they will have to play out to see who is the best and take it from there

Those rumours were killed off by Cheeky. He said on Friday that there is no way in hell that it would happen. It's funny actually, Bandise Maku, Michael Killian, Hannes Franklin are all guys who play for the Kings, but were Lions players...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I am also unsure what I want and what would be best for SA rugby so may the best team win. I think in the long run for SA rugby as a whole it would be best if one of these teams become a sure thing and that the promo/relegation matches are mere formailities at the end of the season. I do believe though that the Kings are a more sustainable franchise. The Lions have had as much chance as the Cheetahs and are relatively new as they and the Cheetahs havn't had that many games as separate entities in SR. The Cheetahs are now assured of a play-off spot after bubbling under and losing close games for a while now while the Lions have been perennial bottom feeders. Sure the Kings are going to end up bottom of the log but with 3 wins and a draw they have performed admirably for a debut season and the reason why I think they are a more sustainable franchise is that the supporters have turned up and they are better spread geographically whereas the Lions are right next to the more successful Bulls franchise.