South Africa vs British and Irish Lions - Test 3

[big ginger 8]

Maybe I am too inexperienced of a fan, but I don't understand the Bundee Aki inclusion. He didn't get across the gain line versus the SA 'A' team and you can easily argue DDA and AM have been the Springboks' best players through the entire series.

Aki also doesn't pass - or at least didn't in the Six Nations - so you aren't getting wide with him. He's simply a blunt instrument that HAS to get over the gain line to be effective. If DDA/AM continue to shut down the 12/13 channel, I don't see how the Lions get on the front-foot.

I didn't think Aki should have been included on the tour but this is a bit unfair.

He played one game in the 6N, so not sure how it's a barometer of anything, but for what it's worth he passed it five times in that game. Two more than Biggar on Saturday. One was quite a good pass in the build up to Conan's try. He's absolutely not a distributor but in comparison to Harris I don't think it's much of a point of difference. His actual catching does let him down at times but he is also a surprisingly good off-loader.

He's definitely not an inspired choice but given the other options available possibly has the greatest positive team effect. He'll keep carrying hard all day and hopefully free up Henshaw to be a bit more special. The fact they have played so many games together is also a benefit in a team lacking established combos.

I'd imagine they're also counting on his defensive impact. He's a very physical defender. Sometimes too physical as evidenced by his two international red cards but I would imagine the coaches are hoping he'll be able to stop SA building momentum. He's also very strong at the breakdown which is much needed.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Maybe I am too inexperienced of a fan, but I don't understand the Bundee Aki inclusion. He didn't get across the gain line versus the SA 'A' team and you can easily argue DDA and AM have been the Springboks' best players through the entire series.

Aki also doesn't pass - or at least didn't in the Six Nations - so you aren't getting wide with him. He's simply a blunt instrument that HAS to get over the gain line to be effective. If DDA/AM continue to shut down the 12/13 channel, I don't see how the Lions get on the front-foot.

Pretty clear what the Springboks want to do: 1.) Dominate the lineout 2.) Get front-foot ball with the maul and gain advantage 3.) Take calculated risks once in the 22.

Big questions for me:

1.) How long can Lood go? His appearance in the 2nd half completely changed the lineout, but can he go more than 40 minutes?

2.) Can Corbus stay disciplined with the kicking game and deliver as Faf has?:

3.) How does Mostert do at Flank? IMO, he was the X-factor in Test 2 and might be the most important single player in the pack this week with PSDT out.

Ja, your questions 1 and 3 to me are very intimately linked and potentially the most important factor going into the weekend what with no recognized lock on the bench. A first for SA I am sure! But then 2x fly half replacements on the bench that you pray you won't have to use. I just cannot fathom the rationale.

My hope with the inclusion of Reinach is that we see a slightly different approach. I very naively hope for a clean, fair (in terms of consistency) and probably most naively heads up game of rugby but my head keeps telling me to give it up in the face of absolutely zero bans for players on either end who looked Intent on playing the man rather than the ball but then banning the man asking questions for 2 years even if I have issue with the tone and personal nature of the hour srant.

 

[General Melchett]

The game will be a total bore until Biggar goes off. No way is he doing anything other than three passes to Aki and a few hopeful up and unders. Can imagine the clock in red and Russell with a conversion attempt near the touchline to win the series. Gatland would be having kittens.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

The game will be a total bore until Biggar goes off. No way is he doing anything other than three passes to Aki and a few hopeful up and unders. Can imagine the clock in red and Russell with a conversion attempt near the touchline to win the series. Gatland would be having kittens.

It's Gatlands game plan not Biggars.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Ja, your questions 1 and 3 to me are very intimately linked and potentially the most important factor going into the weekend what with no recognized lock on the bench. A first for SA I am sure! But then 2x fly half replacements on the bench that you pray you won't have to use. I just cannot fathom the rationale.

My hope with the inclusion of Reinach is that we see a slightly different approach. I very naively hope for a clean, fair (in terms of consistency) and probably most naively heads up game of rugby but my head keeps telling me to give it up in the face of absolutely zero bans for players on either end who looked Intent on playing the man rather than the ball but then banning the man asking questions for 2 years even if I have issue with the tone and personal nature of the hour srant.

My guess on the logic is you'd rather go with Morne Steyn as a reliable placekicker at10 versus Marvin Orie as the 2nd lock on the bench. I admittedly haven't watched much of Orie over the years, but it seems like Saffas don't rate him at all.

Once RG is fit, Steyn is done because the Boks clearly value Willemse's versatility to play 11,10,12, and 15.

I admittedly rather see Fassi and Willemse on the bench with Herschel instead of Steyn. But if the game is close and you need some big kicks, you'd trust Steyn over Willemse or Pollard.

 

[General Melchett]

It's Gatlands game plan not Biggars.

Of course but Biggar's game management and decision making on the pitch.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Of course but Biggar's game management and decision making on the pitch.

Sure, my point is simply that even though Biggar is far from the best ball in hand fly-half (and I've personally never been much of a fan), he's much better than he's showing and that's down to the plan. Russell would be kicking too.

Where it could get interesting is if we are significantly behind when Russell comes on, as we could have one of those moments where the players take matters into their own hands like Sexton and Farrell did last time

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Maybe this has been covered already, but why are there two threads for this?

 

[MACCA]

Not sure why there is all the astonishment for Ken starting. Coming into the tour most people picked him as the starter. But he's ended up with 10 mins gametime in the first test and 20 mins in the last where the whole Lions team was getting steamrolled.

He wasn't my starting hooker and has been **** poor so far. 29 athletes on the park and Owens looks like he has been pulled out of the nearest pub.

 

[MACCA]

Been loyal to the captain and it will cost them the series. Love AWJ to bits but he just isn't effective against South Africa.

100% should have gone Henderson, Itoje second row and we should have gone more dynamic in the back row- clearing rucks to enable phase continuation is crucial if we are to try and move this SA side around and attack them more, and I just don't see us doing that with Lawes at 6, as good as he is defensively and

Lawes on the bench as a second row- he'd be an absolute nightmare fresh in second half.

It won't excite people but the midfield of Ake and Henshaw at least are a known partnership/axis and I feel we've missed that key area in both tests- Daly poor in the first and Henshaw/Harris just not gelling in the second.

I thought Daly might have come into the back 3 as an extra boot- there's a lot riding on Biggar in this selection. Williams, Adam's and Daly would probably have been my 3. Van Der Merwe will need a mighty game to justify his start but it does indicate we're on the kick and contest tactic again.

Price deserved to start at 9- Murray will be vital in the second half if we are still in it.

I really like the front row bench (if Sinckler is cleared) and that can really bring some agility in the second half. Simmonds will bring speed into the back row too which could be massive if we have hung in there.

It seems to me that Gats has asked this XV to give him every last ounce for 50 minutes and then see if they can add the dynamism and agility to edge ahead late on. The risk is if the starting 15 are exposed, it will be a long night.

Lots to ponder- but come on the Lions

Henshaw and Harris didn't gel? What game did you watch? Biggar passed the ball 3 times and that was it. Defensively they were the best in the team. Can understand Aki but probably carded in 10 mins. It should be Murray/Biggar or Price/Russell to start. 20 to go and bring on the slowest 9 in the six nations and ask Russell to turn it round. Gatland will then say he gave it a go.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

no lock cover on the bench is odd.
Mostert will obviously cover it but still

Especially with morne there. Why is morne there? They could have gone 6-2 split. Also Shows the boks will continue to box kick into the 80th, not saying they shouldnt but they havent given themselves any other option if they want to use their whole bench.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Maybe this has been covered already, but why are there two threads for this?

Yeh maybe the two should be merged under this thread? @TRF_Olyy

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Fwiw Aki and Henshaw have played SA once before and won 38-3, admittedly a different challenge now.

Don't really think any midfield combo available would make a difference. Slade or Ringrose should have gone, would have brought a less ridiculously one dimensional approach.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

He wasn't my starting hooker and has been **** poor so far. 29 athletes on the park and Owens looks like he has been pulled out of the nearest pub.

And Sinkler looks like a gummy bear, but he's still great. This is a very harsh judgement on Owens imo

 

[BPM]

Fwiw Aki and Henshaw have played SA once before and won 38-3, admittedly a different challenge now.

Don't really think any midfield combo available would make a difference. Slade or Ringrose should have gone, would have brought a less ridiculously one dimensional approach.

I also think Slade or Ringrose (possibly both) should have gone, but I think the bolded point is the pertinent one. The midfield combo is irrelevant if the 10 isn't going to pass to them.

We could have the best Lions centre combo ever and they'd still be redundant with this gameplan.

I don't blame Biggar for doing what is asked of him, but 3 passes in 60mins is plain bizarre.

 

[Bang76]

I mean some of the changes I wanted to see have happened but....
No George? Owens starts??
Beard?
Simmonds?

Big win for SA IMO

I like the starting 15 but what has he done to the bench. I predict SA will pull clear in the last 15 mins.

 

[Bang76]

I really don't get Gatland at all
Simmonds and Russell really big attack focused players.
But guess who links them up Murray

Gatland has townsend bending his ear and that is a big problem.

 

[FLOBALOB]

Not sure why there is all the astonishment for Ken starting. Coming into the tour most people picked him as the starter. But he's ended up with 10 mins gametime in the first test and 20 mins in the last where the whole Lions team was getting steamrolled.

He wasn't my starting hooker, and he's done nothing on tour to change that. He's had 23 mins and 24 mins , not 10 and 20.
I'm quite surprised he's starting as LCD has been one of the more impressive tourists and can only think its a tactical ploy to employ
his superior physicality/dynamism off the bench.
If Owens plays like last week LCD could be on within the first half hour.

 

[TW27BA]

Glad to see most of the changes but Gatland didn't go far enough.
Why Russell is not starting with his Scotland scrum half I can't fathom. Biggar hasn't brought much for the backline as yet.
An ideal time to give LRZ a run in place of Vdm?
Lawes looked really tired last Sat and I'd have had him on the bench and started Beirne. Neither Faletau or Conan have really shone either, but Simmonds is too lightweight alongside Curry and Lawes.
Henderson and Beirne must be crestfallen to not be involved. Apart from his leadership I can't see what AWJ brings that either Hendo or Beirne cannot do?
Jamie George should feel a little hard done by too. Certainly the equal of Owens.

I can't help feeling SA are on a roll now and unless the Lions get a decent lead, we will be beaten quite easily. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[munstermuffin]

Even captain issue. Price hasn't done much to get ahead of Murray and Murray hasn't done enough badly to be way behind Price. So if Murray was just behind Price or ahead why add captaincy in to mix of 9 battle.
Gatland is a clown and well I know people will say oh he could be unbeaten in 3 tours but equally he may only be a victor in 1 of 3 and that was against probably Australia's worst era and still even then he nearly made a balls of it.
I'm on paper as saying I hope Irish lads go well and get home safe. But feel more connected to South Africa and would like to see them win simply as Gatland destroyed meaning of Lions. Even worst than Sir Clive and that saying alot