South Africa vs British and Irish Lions - Test 3

[anderton46]

I don't get most of this.
From row. Furlong deserves spot but rest have been poor.
AWJ has not been effective and well this is costing Lions. Itoje suffers slightly then too as he has bigger burden. He's been excellent and that is remarkable.
Backrow. Well Lawes is type. Excellemt in 1st test declined 2nd test and will again 3rd as is expected. Lack of brain power in coaches to see this.
Don't get all this Price has been excellent at 9 and deserves it. His warm up games were against **** poor opposition. If he wasn't good in them then he shouldn't be on tour. Now I'm not saying Murray should start but more highlighting they have all been god damn awful.

Christ rest of backs bar Henshaw I don't even know where to start.

I'm confused. Wyn Jones has been poor? the guy hasn't played and was the form player in his position pre tour. All backs aside Henshaw you don't seem to like? What exactly has Adams/Aki/Williams done to make you so against them. Who would you have started?

 

[Die Bokke]

As a Bok, if you had to put a Lions hat on for a second and ask yourself what the most effective things the Lions could do to upset the Boks, what would you say?

I would say the game plan hasn't been terrible, the execution has. Knowing we have played no test match rugby for 21 months moving the pack around was a good plan, getting them tired. I don't think enough grubbers or chips over the rush defence have been used (I can remember 1 from first test?)

I also think dropping price for the second test was poor. He almost guarantees quick ball where as Murray seems to just wait for an eternity to decide. This was epitomised when we counter rucked and he just stood there watching rather than helping, then conceded a penalty second test.
Surely you play around the blitz defence than just keep running into a brick wall.

 

[TopTen2003]

I would say the game plan hasn't been terrible, the execution has. Knowing we have played no test match rugby for 21 months moving the pack around was a good plan, getting them tired. I don't think enough grubbers or chips over the rush defence have been used (I can remember 1 from first test?)

I also think dropping price for the second test was poor. He almost guarantees quick ball where as Murray seems to just wait for an eternity to decide. This was epitomised when we counter rucked and he just stood there watching rather than helping, then conceded a penalty second test.
Surely you play around the blitz defence than just keep running into a brick wall.

Agree fully about moving the pack around. We've offered such little width and really haven't kicked effectively enough so far.

As I alluded to above- there's a lot resting on Price and Biggar in particular this weekend as there isn't really a back up boot.

Scrum will be very interesting this first 50- I'm actually excited by the front row replacements but for them to be effective we need a massive 50 mins from Jones, Owens and Furlong.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Adam Beard eh?

Weird team. It feels like some players have been punished for bad performances, whilst others have maybe got away with it and there are some whose form has not been rewarded at all.

Beirne is SO unlucky man, as is Watson.
That said I think Simmonds is a reasonable call. Gives us another option rather than just going 'through' the opposition, a bit of footwork and pace.
I wouldn't have started Lawes though
Although Watson is a much more talented player than VDM, he was also much worse last week so I'm fine with that call.
Poor Henderson... Beard!?
Good to see Wyn Jones
Owens was in great form prior to the tour so I'm happy to give the benefit - would rather George tbh
Faletau is a biggy. Conans been great but I really would have switched this up.
The midfield axis was incredibly predictable and Obviously telegraphs our gameplay such as tis.

I think we'll lose with this team but by less than last time. I think the scoreline flattered the boks I tiny bit although they definitely were worth at least 10+. I can't see us being as pathetic in the air this time and that alone should reign things in a little.

Gatland will be judged on the outcomes just like in 2013 - although I remember the debate raged on and many on here felt that the ends didn't justify the means. Posterity will not be kind to him if we lose again and he hasn't given some players their chance or included some of the really big game players like Faletau, Farrell etc.

The main thing though is I'm struggling to feel excited by our side at all. Hopefully I'll get there by the end of the week...

 

[Jer1cho]

Yeah the Springbok line out, as it always seems to be, is absolutely immense. The Lions will have to be very smart with their calls to sustain parity. It changed the game on its head last week when Lood came on.

As a Bok, if you had to put a Lions hat on for a second and ask yourself what the most effective things the Lions could do to upset the Boks, what would you say?

Keep trying to force overlaps. Rush defense like ours is not great against quick ball and offloads. We struggle when teams play too quickly and we cannot dictate the tempo of the match.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

For SA I like the tight 5 and bench other than I'd like to see a guy like Shickerling, Nortje, Jenkins, Roets, VdMescht... hell any actual lock replace Smith.

PSdT out hurts. Expected Vermeulen back would compensate but if he isn't right he isn't right. Mostert a similar enough replacement for PSdT even if 2nd choice. Kolisi will have to have another stormer and Wiese needs to step up if he is looking to replace Vermeulen long term. A good outing now given the chance would serve him well if he is the man.

Interesting that Reinach comes straight in and that Faf is out of the picture. Wonder what the story is there. Morne Steyn coming in on the bench. I don't have strong feelings but would've preferred a lock. Not liking the fact that Mostert becomes such a key KEY player all of a sudden. Lood and Etzebeth both quite regularly go off and as likely to go off early if that is the case as not. Will be interesting to see if Reinach's inclusion points to anything but probably one shouldn't read too much into it.

11 to 15 similar to last week is fair enough though of the lot Kolbe has had a poor series so far and not just ITO his work on the ball and off it but poor discipline which could prove costly if he doesn't turn it around.

TBH on the balance I feel test 2 was our best team put out for the series. On paper at least. We'll have to wait a bit to see how it plays out (and Raynal is a very different best to the two Austaralasians..) but likely the results of Rassie and SARU being dragged in to face the farce of WR's iron fist will keep us entertained till Saturday.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If Reinach is still playing like he was at Saints then I don't think losing Faf for him is much of a stepdown (if at all),
Faf has been playing well but not in his "wind him up and cut him loose" kind of way that very few can replicate

 

[Groundhog]

Yeah I think and to be honest hope that Lions side gets roundly pumped, although I'll mostly be happy to see the back of the tour now (bring on NFL season baby). The replacements for Faf and Duane are both quality test level players I'd have said so I don't think they'll lose too much there.

Think Beirne and Henderson have been done so dirty this tour and there's no real excuse behind it. In the interest of balance I think with Murray and Price it's 50/50, I won't complain and I honestly don't think either give the Lions a good shot, but Beirne and Henderson haven't been given a chance when they should rightly be in the starting picture.

 

[g6mcg]

Starting team looks mostly coherent. I'd like changes but you can broadly see what the aim will be. Bench looks a real mess though, almost as though Gatland and Townsend picked it in alternating order.

Beirne and Henderson omissions are mad, though guess we should feel lucky that Jonny Hill hasn't found his way into one of the Test squads.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Surely the most uninspiring Lions back line ever?

Wouldn't have argued with Wyn Jones a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully he'll be able to hit the ground running.

Owens is a solid enough veteran. Not a change I'd have made and tough on LCD but I won't be complaining too much if his darts are bang on and he makes his tackles.

The Boks have got their top locks back and ours look underpowered.

And there should have been at least one change in the back row. Conan's been OK, but not done anything to suggest he'll make a big difference. Curry's effort hasn't matched his effectiveness while Lawes has had two decent halves.

Reinach is a fantastic player. He might give the Boks a different dimension.

 

[Jakedood]

I'd love to see if we can beat the blitz with a couple of crossfield kicks, or kick passes to get DvDM one v one on a winger, or something similar. Russell is more likely o back his skills here than Biggar, but would be nice to see some variety outside of box kicks

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sinckler cleared

Prepare for the Rassie Rant

 

[Bada-Bing!]

 

[bargepole]

You could pick almost any starting XV from the Lions squad, and I don't think it would make much difference quality wise, they are all experienced internationals.

The issue is mental, rather than physical. In that second test, they probably thought that the Boks would fade in the second half, like they did in the 'A' game and the first test, and going into the break already leading, the Lions players probably thought that they just had to go through the motions to claim the win.

As a result, the intensity dropped off, and SA had all the momentum.

So the attitude for Test 3 is that every player must give 100% effort for 80 minutes, or however long they are on the field. Do that, and we're in with a shout.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'm confused. Wyn Jones has been poor? the guy hasn't played and was the form player in his position pre tour. All backs aside Henshaw you don't seem to like? What exactly has Adams/Aki/Williams done to make you so against them. Who would you have started?

I think if you read correctly I was referring to guys who had played/. No issues with Adams or Aki as they have played well. Williams no issues either although he was poor too. Wyn Jones I welcome back.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So the attitude for Test 3 is that every player must give 100% effort for 80 minutes, or however long they are on the field. Do that, and we're in with a shout.

If that needs to be said, there's something wrong in camp.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Hmm fully unconvinced.

Van de Merwe's inclusion leads me to believe that Biggar may struggle to exceed his tally of 3 passes in the last game. Bomb Kolbe appears to be the plan. That's not near enough.

I have some sympathy with the Lion's selectors. An obvious tactic would be to try and play fast / wide to tire the Boks a bit. However, due to Rassie's genius every single reffing decision is going to take about 15 minutes effectively turning the game into NFL lite. The Boks can go full bore for every phase and that'll make the difference. They are bigger, stronger and not without skill especially when they are winning the gain line. Phase to phase won't take enough out of the likes of DeJager and Etzebeth to make any difference.

I reckon we'll get beaten up to be honest.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Maybe I am too inexperienced of a fan, but I don't understand the Bundee Aki inclusion. He didn't get across the gain line versus the SA 'A' team and you can easily argue DDA and AM have been the Springboks' best players through the entire series.

Aki also doesn't pass - or at least didn't in the Six Nations - so you aren't getting wide with him. He's simply a blunt instrument that HAS to get over the gain line to be effective. If DDA/AM continue to shut down the 12/13 channel, I don't see how the Lions get on the front-foot.

Pretty clear what the Springboks want to do: 1.) Dominate the lineout 2.) Get front-foot ball with the maul and gain advantage 3.) Take calculated risks once in the 22.

Big questions for me:

1.) How long can Lood go? His appearance in the 2nd half completely changed the lineout, but can he go more than 40 minutes?

2.) Can Corbus stay disciplined with the kicking game and deliver as Faf has?:

3.) How does Mostert do at Flank? IMO, he was the X-factor in Test 2 and might be the most important single player in the pack this week with PSDT out.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Surely the most uninspiring Lions back line ever?

Wouldn't have argued with Wyn Jones a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully he'll be able to hit the ground running.

Owens is a solid enough veteran. Not a change I'd have made and tough on LCD but I won't be complaining too much if his darts are bang on and he makes his tackles.

The Boks have got their top locks back and ours look underpowered.

And there should have been at least one change in the back row. Conan's been OK, but not done anything to suggest he'll make a big difference. Curry's effort hasn't matched his effectiveness while Lawes has had two decent halves.

Reinach is a fantastic player. He might give the Boks a different dimension.

More than that to be honest.
Does our backrow even come close to some of those of previous tours?

Warburton
SOB
Faletau..

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Let's hope this new team actually proves useful.