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South Africa squad for England tests

I'm a Bulls fan but even I cringed when I saw this squad announced. Really embarrassing to see Potgieter, Olivier and Engelbrecht there. Really awkward moment for SA rugby after the Stormers' great win yesterday, and only 3 players in the Springbok squad. Meyer should be very redfaced at the moment.
 
Can anyone explain why Jano Vermaak was selected? For years he was the starting scrum-half for the Lions, played every week and didn't get selected. Now he is on the bench every week for the Bulls and he is on the Bok squad.

Unbelievable.
 
Can anyone explain why Jano Vermaak was selected? For years he was the starting scrum-half for the Lions, played every week and didn't get selected. Now he is on the bench every week for the Bulls and he is on the Bok squad.

Unbelievable.


Answer in bold.
 
Other unbelievable selections are Zane Kirchner, Meisiekind Olivier, JJ Engelbrecht and Ryan Kankowski. I am the biggest Kankowski fan in the world but he should not be in the squad. He only played 3 minutes since returning after breaking his hand.
 
I am a bit miffed at the selections. TBF to PdV I used to call him an idiot when I didn't agree with some of his selections; John Smit, Habana, Spies and Kirschner mostly so i will go ahead and call Meyer an idiot as well; Heynecke, jou blerrie poephol! At least PdV went with experienced players to a RWC with the belief that they will come good on the big stage and experience will shine through. What is the point of carrying on in that vain without a RWCahead of us?

Why on earth select players that have, 1, no future in the Bok jersey looking further ahead and, 2, aren't even all that experienced in test rugby or even in any sort of form; Kankowski being the selection that stumps me most. So we have Kankowski there ahead of Kolisi and CJ Stander the only way to spin it is that you are including experience ahead of form (why then not Brussow who is the specialist we lack in any case) but then on the other hand you include JJ Engelbrecht and Mvovo ahead of Aplon and De Jongh???? This just does not add up in my mind. Wynand Olivier?? Seriously?

I think I have to stop here because otherwise I might end up calling our new coach some unfortunate names. And that on a Sunday.
 
From what I've read so far, one thing is very clear, the plan is to play South African Traditional Rugby. Uncompromising, physical, forward dominated rugby. Which, IMHO is the best way to knock-out England.

Heyneke said last night that this squad will change for the Rugby Championship as he has different plans against different oppositions, and he said he knows that some of his selections won't be favourable by the SA public... which clearly are evident in the remarks above. But I am of the opinion that Meyer has a clear plan with each guy and what their individuality brings to the team.

Yes there are very few Stormers Players in the squad, BUT, the reason the Stormers are top of the log, is because as a team they play tremendously good, but have few individual players who stood out so far this season. Guys like Siya Kolisi, Gio Aplon, JDJ and Joe Pietersen all should be in the Bok squad I agree, of which only Gio and JDJ has played Springbok before. But apart from Kolisi, they don't bring the physicality which Meyer wants.

Another thing we should consider is that Andries Bekker, Duane Vermeulen and Nick Koster are all injured, and would have been picked ahead of some of the guys selected. Many news reports has said that the Stormers are overplayed and over-worked, and I think that this played a part in Meyer's selection. He wouldn't pick guys with the fear of fatigue bringing more harm than good to the squad. and this is where AC should have implemented a better rotational plan like the Sharks, Bulls and Cheetahs.

I can also understand why Brussouw wasn't picked, he's off form at the moment, and his best attribute is to poach the ball at ruck time, but let's look at the guys who were picked that can do the job as well: Bismarck Du Plessis, Coenie Oosthuizen, Juandre Kruger, Chilliboy Ralepelle, Franco van der Merwe and Keegan Daniel. This shows that Meyer also knows that having just one fetcher isn't enough as he can't attempt to get the ball at every ruck, but if there are more than one guy who's able to do it, then the opposition will have a tough job ahead of them.

I don't see Jano Vermaak getting much game time, and is there purely as back-up if either Ruan or Francois gets injured. So no need to carry on discussing this further.

I feel sorry for Peter Grant, but with that said, he's like Morne Steyn at the moment, in that he should only play fly-half. Lambie, Francois Steyn, Ruan Pienaar, JJ Engelbrecht, Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen and Hougaard can play different positions and like we all know, Meyer loves to play guys in more than one position. Our backs are good, apart from Kirchner, who should not be there!!!

one last thing, I won't be at all surprised if Kankowski plays lock for the boks vs. England. Like Danie Rossouw, he has the height, the skills but a bit more mobility to play lock. which might help our strong pack.

So guys, lets wait and see what the team does before we go and protest... Something has to happen first. And there aren't any news yet on guys who got injured yesterday, so maybe that will also bring in a guy who should be there over one, which is very debatable.
 
I have to agree with Heineken. There will always be a discussion about certain selections but the Boks haven't played a single game under the new coach. Just wait until after the first game. I reckon he's capable of picking a squad, otherwise he wouldn't have got the job.
 
When is the team announcement? Tuesday?
 
I had a little rant prepared but I'm gonna swallow it. I feel a bit bad for PdV because I'm going to give HM something i never gave him, which is give him the benefit of the doubt.
I'll wait and see and assume he knows what he's doing. I don't really have much to add which others haven't added before me so it would be pointless anyway.

However I do think the likely starting 22 looks a bit tired, I really feel we could do better than this:

1. Jannie/Werner
2. Bismarck
3. Beast/Coenie
4. Flip/Etzebeth
5. Kruger
6. Daniel
7. Willem
8. Spies
9. Hougard
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. F.Steyn
13. JdV
14. Pietersen
15. Lambie

16. Any of the above props
17. Any of the above props
18. Strauss
19. Flip/Etzebeth
20. Marcel Coetzee
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. Zane Kirchner
 
Steyn at 10 and Lambie at 15 makes me sick :/
 
HM will use current combinations for the first game before experimenting. so I think it will look something like this:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Flip van der Merwe
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Keegan Daniel
7. Marcell Coetzee
8. Willem Alberts
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Francois Steyn
13. Jean De Villiers
14. JP Pietersen
15. Pat Lambie

16. Chilliboy Ralapelle
17. Werner Kruger
18. Eben Etzebeth
19. Pierre Spies
20. Ruan Pienaar
21. Elton Jantjies
22. JJ Engelbrecht
 
HM will use current combinations for the first game before experimenting. so I think it will look something like this:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Flip van der Merwe
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Keegan Daniel
7. Marcell Coetzee
8. Willem Alberts
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Francois Steyn
13. Jean De Villiers
14. JP Pietersen
15. Pat Lambie

16. Chilliboy Ralapelle
17. Werner Kruger
18. Eben Etzebeth
19. Pierre Spies
20. Ruan Pienaar
21. Elton Jantjies
22. JJ Engelbrecht

There are 9 Sharks in your starting 15 . I like the Sharks but they have been terribly inconsistent for 3 years now with the (bad) loss to the bottom-dwelling, injury-hit Lions this weekend just highlighting the fact.

I'll have to wait for the string XV to be announced but it seems, from the outside, like there is no direction or new thought from what we have come to expect from the Bulls since 2007. That's all I'm going to say until at this stage not wanting to get ahead of myself but there ought to have been more direction shown even at this pre-match stage. I am overreacting I know, but I'm a passionate Bok supporter and Meyer is going to have to deliver is all I'm saying.
 
There are 9 Sharks in your starting 15 . I like the Sharks but they have been terribly inconsistent for 3 years now with the (bad) loss to the bottom-dwelling, injury-hit Lions this weekend just highlighting the fact.

I'll have to wait for the string XV to be announced but it seems, from the outside, like there is no direction or new thought from what we have come to expect from the Bulls since 2007. That's all I'm going to say until at this stage not wanting to get ahead of myself but there ought to have been more direction shown even at this pre-match stage. I am overreacting I know, but I'm a passionate Bok supporter and Meyer is going to have to deliver is all I'm saying.

Relax! It's not Meyer's fault AC breaks his own players and then says in news interviews he's glad his guys aren't picked for the Boks. For a guy who gave Meyer a lot of praise in the beginning of the year, you sure are negative about his picks, but deep down you know, he's picked the strongest side he could.
 
Relax! It's not Meyer's fault AC breaks his own players and then says in news interviews he's glad his guys aren't picked for the Boks. For a guy who gave Meyer a lot of praise in the beginning of the year, you sure are negative about his picks, but deep down you know, he's picked the strongest side he could.

LOL, I'll relax. Though I did say I'm glad for Meyer I did have my reservations regarding the fact that he hasn't been head of a team for 4 years (although I'm sure his been very involved with the Bulls, the buck didn't stop at his door) and the 'Bulls-connection'.

Many of these selections just seem to validate these reservations but I'll admit that time constraints and injuries make it a near impossible task to get everyone happy.
 
Draggs :D

I just hate to see him being wasted on 15, I think he's the best fly-half we have. Great tactical kicking and a running game.
 
Draggs :D

I just hate to see him being wasted on 15, I think he's the best fly-half we have. Great tactical kicking and a running game.

Agree totally. I've said this, Eze has said this.
Jantjies and Goosen seem more limited (read kicking-based) players.
SA always go for the Derick Hougaard over Brent Russell though.
 
Agree totally. I've said this, Eze has said this.
Jantjies and Goosen seem more limited (read kicking-based) players.
SA always go for the Derick Hougaard over Brent Russell though.

Yes, and Like Heyneke said he is looking for the traditional way of playing SA rugby, so Heyneke will look for the more conservative type Fly-half. But with that said, he only picked one such a fly-half for the England tests in Morne Steyn. with 2 more direct fly-halves in Lambie and Jantjies.

Now wouldn't it be a breath of fresh air if Heyneke gets Morne to play like he did when he first started out at the Bulls??
 
Yes, and Like Heyneke said he is looking for the traditional way of playing SA rugby, so Heyneke will look for the more conservative type Fly-half. But with that said, he only picked one such a fly-half for the England tests in Morne Steyn. with 2 more direct fly-halves in Lambie and Jantjies.

Now wouldn't it be a breath of fresh air if Heyneke gets Morne to play like he did when he first started out at the Bulls??

You mean on the bench?
 
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