South Africa End Of Year Tour (EOYT) 2012

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Yeah, yeah... I wanted to put Juan Smith on the list but accidentally completed the name with "De Jongh" in stead of "Smith"...

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Typo there??

Lol!!

My team will be:

1. Guthro Steenkamp
2. Schalk Brits
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Jeandre Kruger
6. Francois Louw (if he's not injured... We'll hear tonight) otherwise Marcell Coetzee
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Jano Vermaak
10. Pat Lambie
11. Raymond Rhule
12. JDV
13. JDJ
14. JP Peterson
15. Jaco Taute

16. Chilliboy
17. Pat Cilliers
18. Beast
19. Franco Van Der Merwe
20. Arno Botha
21. Francois Hougaard
22. Elton Jantjies

My reason for picking Guthro and Schalk is that they are now used to the new scrum adjustments and might help our other guys focus more on the breakdown parts.

23 men, Hein!

 

[TRF_heineken]

23 men, Hein!

Will that also be implemented?? Oh Happy days!!

Okay in that case I'll add Zane Kirchner on the bench

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well, only 12 more days so I will get a line-up going.


1. Gurthro Steenkamp
2. Schalk Brits
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Francois Louw
7. Marcell Coetzee
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Ruan Pienaar
10.Pat Lambie
11.Lwazi Mvovo
12.Jean de Villiers (c)
13.Juan de Jongh
14.JP Pietersen
15.Jaco Taute

16.Chiliboy Ralepelle
17.Tendai Mtawarira
18.Pat Cilliers
19.Flip van der Merwe
20.Willem Alberts
21.Jano Vermaak
22.Elton Jantjies
23.Lionel Mapoe

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well, only 12 more days so I will get a line-up going.


1. Gurthro Steenkamp
2. Schalk Brits
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Francois Louw
7. Marcell Coetzee
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Ruan Pienaar
10.Pat Lambie
11.Lwazi Mvovo
12.Jean de Villiers (c)
13.Juan de Jongh
14.JP Pietersen
15.Jaco Taute

16.Chiliboy Ralepelle
17.Tendai Mtawarira
18.Pat Cilliers
19.Flip van der Merwe
20.Willem Alberts
21.Jano Vermaak
22.Elton Jantjies
23.Lionel Mapoe

JDV, Flouw, Adriaan Strauss are all injury concerns at the moment and there's no news yet on what's going on after they had their scans today.

I would've thought that HM would name 5 or so Backup players just in case this happens...

 

[Gena_ZA]

I dislike Jannie but no better at the moment
Mvovo is not test quality imho, would rather put in Hougaardt or a development player like our young new speedster

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

You say Mvovo is not a Test quality player but in stead you want to put Rhule there? That young lad who is ****-poor on defense? I feel a winger should be more all-round nowadays to make it at Test level. Mvovo is good defensively, not afraid to hit the line, knows how to offload and has speed to go with all that. I would pick Mapoe before putting Rhule in the starting XV. I know Hugh Bladen is chairman of the Rhule fanclub and his biased commentary got Rhule a lot of exposure but I just prefer players who can tackle as well.

Hougaard is not a form player and should not even be in the squad. Vermaak is the starting scrum-half with the Bulls with Hougaard not even playing on the wing for them. What happened with picking form players? Why is Gio Aplon not in the squad for instance?

@ heineken: You keep saying HM doesn't want to make the Bok jersey cheap, but how does he justify selecting Arno Botha who has only played at Currie Cup level yet? Same goes for Rhule.

Daniel and Ludik have shown great form even against the NZ and OZ teams in Super Rugby but they are being neglected in favor of some players who have never even played club rugby outside of South Africa.

 

[TRF_heineken]

You say Mvovo is not a Test quality player but in stead you want to put Rhule there? That young lad who is ****-poor on defense? I feel a winger should be more all-round nowadays to make it at Test level. Mvovo is good defensively, not afraid to hit the line, knows how to offload and has speed to go with all that. I would pick Mapoe before putting Rhule in the starting XV. I know Hugh Bladen is chairman of the Rhule fanclub and his biased commentary got Rhule a lot of exposure but I just prefer players who can tackle as well.

Hougaard is not a form player and should not even be in the squad. Vermaak is the starting scrum-half with the Bulls with Hougaard not even playing on the wing for them. What happened with picking form players? Why is Gio Aplon not in the squad for instance?

@ heineken: You keep saying HM doesn't want to make the Bok jersey cheap, but how does he justify selecting Arno Botha who has only played at Currie Cup level yet? Same goes for Rhule.

Daniel and Ludik have shown great form even against the NZ and OZ teams in Super Rugby but they are being neglected in favor of some players who have never even played club rugby outside of South Africa.

I also don't like Mvovo, he's only really effective on attack when he has some room, Rhule on the other hand has shown he can find gaps and be a bit creative... But I would've wanted Bjorn Basson there, he's no worse than those 2...

Regarding Arno Botha, just because he's in the squad, doesn't mean he'll play. Arno has been part of the bok setup since the England test matches, and he has played Super Rugby too, just so by the way. and is there any other available quality 8th man to back-up Alberts and Vermeulen??? Are you just ranting because he's a bulls player??

Daniel had his chance, and failed miserably! He's the next Kanko, great in a sharks jersey, but kak in a bok jersey...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Lets leave Rhule to gain some experience first other than at CC level before throwing him at test level opposition in unfimilar conditions. I'm sure him and Botha are only there for the learning opportunity. We have good on form and relatively experienced back up for Habana in the shape of Mvovo, Mapoe and though a little off form Hougaard.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Lets leave Rhule to gain some experience first other than at CC level before throwing him at test level opposition in unfimilar conditions. I'm sure him and Botha are only there for the learning opportunity. We have good on form and relatively experienced back up for Habana in the shape of Mvovo, Mapoe and though a little off form Hougaard.

True

But Supersport Blitz is running with the theory that Rhule should make the same impact that the guy he replaces did when he made his debut some many moons ago...

IMHO, I would pick Rhule ahead of Mvovo, but not ahead of Hougaard.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I also don't like Mvovo, he's only really effective on attack when he has some room, Rhule on the other hand has shown he can find gaps and be a bit creative... But I would've wanted Bjorn Basson there, he's no worse than those 2...

Regarding Arno Botha, just because he's in the squad, doesn't mean he'll play. Arno has been part of the bok setup since the England test matches, and he has played Super Rugby too, just so by the way. and is there any other available quality 8th man to back-up Alberts and Vermeulen??? Are you just ranting because he's a bulls player??

Daniel had his chance, and failed miserably! He's the next Kanko, great in a sharks jersey, but kak in a bok jersey...

You really think I am so short-sighted to disagree because Botha is a Bull? I disagree with his selection because he was mainly a U21 player this whole year. It would be as ridiculous as selecting Brynard Stander, JP du Plessis or Etienne Oosthuizen. Arno Botha is a talented lad but he has shown little this year. At least not enough to be in the Bok team.

And why has Daniel failed? Because he didn't show his skills in 1 Test? He only got his chance against Argentina. Why does he only get 1 chance and others get plenty? And why do we need a 3rd player able to play at the back of the scrum anyway? If we are going to call up players with just Currie Cup experience, why not call up Marnus Schoeman in stead? We can use another fetcher since we only have one in the squad (who is injured at the moment).

Basson would be a better option than Rhule by the way. The Rhule selection is something I will never understand. Yes, he scored some tries but come on... Rocco Jansen also scored a bunch of tries. What is the reason for selecting Rhule? Apparently defense is not important for wingers.


Players should be picked based on form, easy as that. The EOYT is the perfect time of the year to try new combinations since there is no tournament (Rugby Championship) or Series (against England) to lose. It's just 3 individual tests. If Meyer is not trying new things now, what's the use of preparing for 2015? But no... we still have Jannie du Plessis, Morne Steyn, Zane Kirchner and Tendai Mtawarira in the squad. Give the guys a rest, try something new. Call up guys like Kitshoff, Ludik, Aplon and Willie le Roux... All players who have played out of their skin the entire year.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Forgot about Basson, he would be a better choice, Mvovo simply does not impress me and I need not justify that to anyone, it is my opinion and I couldn't care if he was the WP captain - this is Bok rugby, I only see green
True that Rhule is still very raw and will probably only get experience and maybe a small stint against Scotland. He has X-factor and we kak in our pants if HM select the stereotypes but have the shits when he select the ones with potential as a development player....
In my view Arno Botha is a future Bok Captain and yes, I am very happy he is there, even if only to learn
Hougaard still have plenty to offer is the stupid game-plan allows him to - why has he never received the ball from out 9's as a pop pass this year? he used to score tries that way and made his name as a winger.
Our style of play is nullifying his explosive threat. I will never consider him as a no 9.

HM still have to keep winning, thus the boring experienced guys with the new young guns
I am reasonably satisfied

Daniel simply doesn't have the bulk and is my eyes he is like a typical Luke Watson - brilliant at fast Super 15 and CC rugby, not that effective at test level

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'd actually be more bothered if Daniel was selected than Botha TBH. Mvovo over Basson is fine by me though; I see both as 'place holders'.

I'd be surprised if the old pop pass from 9 to 11 around the back of the scrum/line-out catches anyone off guard anytime soon; we've done that one too many times now and need to add a few more like them to the quiver for any of them to be lethal.

So all in all I'm fine with the selections with a few conditions; M Steyn is there behind Lambie and Jantjies and Kirchner only there to wear the no.22 jersey. Lambie and Taute at 10/21 (if behind Jantjies) and 15 only. No more messing about shifting players out of position.

It's good that a few of these guys will get a chance. Just imagine this group of players with the addition of Bismarck, Oosthuien, Bekker, Goosen, F Steyn and Habana (minus some of the dead wood of course)! All we actually need from there on is some depth to our gameplan and for 1 of our promising young centers to come to the fore and we should be pretty formidable.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I can't disagree with anything Gena has said.

And you bring a valid point regarding Botha and future captaincy. Maybe this tour is to get him more accustomed to the Bok-atmosphere. He's Big, Fast, and has great skills. he can play no.8, flanker and lock. The Next Danie Rossouw, without the many knock-ons...

I understand the frustration with Daniel, but honestly, he's not good enough. he's too small and thin, and only flourishes if the game is loose. As soon as a game gets tight, he's as useful as a condom in the Zuma house...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think a lot has to do with finding a balance between establishing your core, selecting players who fill a current gap best and then identifying future stars and bringin them into the mix so that they are ready when their time comes.

Guys like Bismarck, Mtawarira, Pienaar, F Steyn and Pietersen I see as core players that can go for a few years yet. Etzebeth, Lambie, Taute and Coetzee I also see as core players already even though they don't necessarily have 50 tests worth of experience yet

Someone like Keegan I only see as a fringe player that got brought in because of injuries. JdV, Habana, Bekker, M Steyn and Kirchner I see as experienced players that are just there still to fill out the numbers (caps) while the likes of Lambie, Taute, Coetzee etc build their caps out.

And then all the while guys like Rhule, Botha, Stander, Oosthuizen etc; players with huge potential get brought in and tested.

I think it's a case of finding a balance and I think HM is doing a decent enough job; you can't satisfy everyone selection-wise. All I wish for is for less dependance on guys like JdV, Spies, M Steyn, Kirchner and the like and more trust in the young guys. So far of all the young guys brought in only maybe Jacques Potgieter found the step up difficult and I blame HM for bringing him in right after injury with no game time to prepare after coming back from a lengthy spell off.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Yes, but did we really need another 8-man? We need a second fetcher in the squad. Daniel might not deserve a call-up, but neither does Botha. I would have been more at ease with the call-up of either Deon Fourie or Marnus Schoeman.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yes, but did we really need another 8-man? We need a second fetcher in the squad. Daniel might not deserve a call-up, but neither does Botha. I would have been more at ease with the call-up of either Deon Fourie or Marnus Schoeman.

can't disagree with the fetcher role, or the call up for Schoeman or Fourie. They were great throughout the Currie Cup and I was one of Schoeman's biggest fans. But could the inclusion of Franco van der Merwe, Schalk Brits and Guthro Steenkamp maybe have played a role, they all are good at pilfering and with guys like Jannie, Etzebeth and Alberts going hard at the rucks, it could aid us in having to rely only on flouw...

Who knows the choice of Botha, all I'm saying is that it's a good choice.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'd have loved the inclusion of Schoeman. I'm sure he'll get his chance. We are truly blessed with classy loose forwards. What we do need to do is pick about 5/6 and stick with them. I think Meyer has 4 of them pegged; Alberts, Flo, Coetzee and Vermeulen. Now to find the other 2 and certainly, one of them need to be a fetcher. The options are probably between Schoeman, Brussow and my personal favorite Fourie (I do admit Wp bias LOL). I do think Botha and/or Stander could grow into that role however. Both have the pace to play to the ball and good ball skills and strength. If anything maybe they are too big LOL.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'd have loved the inclusion of Schoeman. I'm sure he'll get his chance. We are truly blessed with classy loose forwards. What we do need to do is pick about 5/6 and stick with them. I think Meyer has 4 of them pegged; Alberts, Flo, Coetzee and Vermeulen. Now to find the other 2 and certainly, one of them need to be a fetcher. The options are probably between Schoeman, Brussow and my personal favorite Fourie (I do admit Wp bias LOL). I do think Botha and/or Stander could grow into that role however. Both have the pace to play to the ball and good ball skills and strength. If anything maybe they are too big LOL.

What a headache will it be next year for HM when Brussouw, Schalla and Pierre Spies are all back from injury... Those 3 alone make a very good loose trio combo.

I see that Adriaan Strauss and Flouw are declared fit and ready to go...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What a headache will it be next year for HM when Brussouw, Schalla and Pierre Spies are all back from injury... Those 3 alone make a very good loose trio combo.

I see that Adriaan Strauss and Flouw are declared fit and ready to go...

That's good. I was looking forward to the battle between the two Strausses at 2. I hope it's as awesome as Adriaan taking on Bismarck earlier in the year in SR and coming out 2nd only by a whisker.