South Africa End Of Year Tour (EOYT) 2012

[TRF_stormer2010]

LOL. Behind Habana and Pietersen I'd have Aplon ahead of Basson. But between the three of them (Basson, Appels and Mvov I mean) I suppose there isn't too much in it. Engelbrecht and Willie le Roux might be outside chances and offer some points of difference on the wing. Have a look at Le Roux's stats as a supporter in SR. He almost creates more chances for those around him than the ones he takes himself; line breaks taken and created for others, off-loads etc. It might have a lot to do with the game the Cheetahs play though and the bokke don't play with the width the Cheetahs do so it's hard to compare and ITO defense you can't compare Le Roux to Habana (when he doesn;t shoot up for the intercept), Aplon and especially Pietersen. Mapoe on the wing for the Bokke?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Does anyone know how many players HM is planning to take? I suppose apart from the core group the selections will be based on whether HM approaches these games on a win at all cost and make up for lost experience mentality or as a trial by fire for up and comers to see what he has to work with approach. Probably we'll see a combination if his selections to date are anything to go by; he has largely stuck to what he knows but TBF he has brought through a whole lot of new talent in a relatively short space of time.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Does anyone know how many players HM is planning to take? I suppose apart from the core group the selections will be based on whether HM approaches these games on a win at all cost and make up for lost experience mentality or as a trial by fire for up and comers to see what he has to work with approach. Probably we'll see a combination if his selections to date are anything to go by; he has largely stuck to what he knows but TBF he has brought through a whole lot of new talent in a relatively short space of time.

He'll take about 30 i guess.

Keeping the core group and adding a few. as his preparation time will also be little before the first game.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I thought so too. Maybe a little less than 30 but then it's always good to take a few fringe youngsters along for the exposure. Do you think given that there is little preperation time that HM will lean a bit on guys that have already been there like Steenkamp and Botha rather than say someone like Kitshoff or Bresler as examples? I'm split on what I'd want TBH as we can't take any of these teams lightly seeing as our recent record against Scotland and Ireland aren't as good as it probably should be and then there is the draw against England on home soil. AT least we've had some time together now under HM which should help.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Bok Team was Announced:

Forwards:

Beast Mtawarira
Gurthro Steenkamp
Chilliboy Ralepelle
Adriaan Strauss
Schalk Brits
Willem Alberts
Pat Cilliers
Arno Botha
Francois Louw
CJ van Der Linde
Franco van der Merwe
Marcell Coetzee
Janne Du Plessis
Eben Etzebeth
Juandre Kruger
Flip van Der Merwe
Duane Vermeulen

Backs:
Morne Steyn
Pat Lambie
Elton Jantjies
Ruan Pienaar
Jano Vermaak
Francois Hougaard
Lwazi Mvovo
Lionell Mapoe
Raymond Rhule
Jean De Villiers
Juan De Jongh
Zane Kirchner
JP Pietersen
Jaco Taute

Oh I like this squad...

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Okay, my 2 cents.

Morne Steyn, Zane Kirchner and CJ van der Linde should not even be near the Springbok team. What have these 3 players shown to justify their selections?

How come the form players in the Currie Cup are not in the team? Louis Ludik, Deon Fourie? We only have 1 fetcher in the squad and Ludik was just the best player overall this Currie Cup season. He has shown what he can do. Attack the line, brilliant under the high ball and speed to go with it.

If Morne or Zane is playing, I am not even going to watch. Those 2 are a disgrace for the Bok colors.

 

[Gena_ZA]

The Springboks will travel to the Northern Hemisphere next weekend with five uncapped players but without their all-time leading try-scorer and most experienced player, Bryan Habana.
Habana was the latest key player to be added to a long injury list when he sustained a knee injury in Saturday's Absa Currie Cup final. Scans on Sunday confirmed he will miss the tour of Ireland, Scotland and England.
South Africa Under-20 winger Raymond Rhule, who was part of the squad that won the IRB Junior World Championship in Cape Town earlier this year and who has shone for the Toyota Free State Cheetahs in the Currie Cup, was named in the squad along with uncapped Jano Vermaak, Franco van der Merwe, Lionel Mapoe and Arno Botha.
Of the five, only 19-year-old Rhule has not been part of a Springbok squad yet this year, but his inclusion forms part of Meyer's plan to blood promising youngsters for the future.
Rhule is one of five wing options with the fit-again JP Pietersen, Francois Hougaard, Lwazi Mvovo and Mapoe. Pietersen, Rhule and Mapoe can also be used at centre, while Hougaard can also play at scrumhalf.
Two Springboks currently based in Europe, Schalk Brits (hooker) and Gurthrö Steenkamp (loosehead prop), have also been recalled to the national squad.

^^Really happy about this in boldface
Ludik should have been there, no doubt about it

 

[TRF_heineken]

Okay, my 2 cents.

Morne Steyn, Zane Kirchner and CJ van der Linde should not even be near the Springbok team. What have these 3 players shown to justify their selections?

How come the form players in the Currie Cup are not in the team? Louis Ludik, Deon Fourie? We only have 1 fetcher in the squad and Ludik was just the best player overall this Currie Cup season. He has shown what he can do. Attack the line, brilliant under the high ball and speed to go with it.

If Morne or Zane is playing, I am not even going to watch. Those 2 are a disgrace for the Bok colors.

Yeah yeah, we know... you hate them... Get over it...

HM said that he's not just going to pick guys based only on Currie Cup performance, nor is he going to make the bok-jersey cheap. He said he only picked 2 fullbacks as he wants Taute to learn from Zane for the future. He didn't pick Deon as he needs his loose-trio to gel more. And he picked Arno Botha as he can play the fetcher role also, but he's a more specialized 8th man, and was in the squad previously.

Morne Steyn was an easy choice, in wet damp fields, there's no-one better with the type of game we play. That doesn't necessarily mean he's going to play as both Pat and Elton is aslo there.

To immediately jump to the negative for this squad, is because your team choked in the final yesterday. Understandable.

How about we commend HM for picking Schalk Brits, Guthro Steenkamp, Francois Louw and Ruan Pienaar, who are NH based players and should be there....

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Hein,

I don't hate Morne Steyn or Zane Kirchner but I feel players should be called up based on form. I know the Currie Cup alone is not something to justify a Bok call-up but Ludik has been solid all year, also in Super Rugby. The only reason I can think of for Morne being in the squad is as a 3rd fly-half since Goosen is out injured. It's Lambie's turn now to show what he can do as a fly-half.

I don't get why Heyneke Meyer keeps saying he doesn't want to make the Bok jersey cheap but in the same interview keeps on saying this is a rebuilding phase. How can you rebuild without giving players a chance?

Selecting Steenkamp, Louw and Pienaar is not something to get credit for. Getting Brits in the team though, yes... I love that! Still, picking players who haven't been performing all year is just ridiculous.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Hein,

I don't hate Morne Steyn or Zane Kirchner but I feel players should be called up based on form. I know the Currie Cup alone is not something to justify a Bok call-up but Ludik has been solid all year, also in Super Rugby. The only reason I can think of for Morne being in the squad is as a 3rd fly-half since Goosen is out injured. It's Lambie's turn now to show what he can do as a fly-half.

I don't get why Heyneke Meyer keeps saying he doesn't want to make the Bok jersey cheap but in the same interview keeps on saying this is a rebuilding phase. How can you rebuild without giving players a chance?

Selecting Steenkamp, Louw and Pienaar is not something to get credit for. Getting Brits in the team though, yes... I love that! Still, picking players who haven't been performing all year is just ridiculous.

Face it, you'll never get entirely what you want. you are not the coach and that won't change. He has to delicately pick between youth and experience, and stats for- and against- the players. Zane Kirchner, while most of you guys on this forum dislike him, has been a great performer for the Boks. he has scored tries, he's made try-saving tackles and just been solid. Even with his predictability, he's still remained solid.

Selecting 2 immature fly-halves to the NH would be a dumb move. the pressure on them would have been immense. Morne will help attracting more pressure onto him, giving the young guys more freedom... Especially from the press.

Louw has been a revelation for the Boks, I can't understand why you would say he hasn't been performing all year, and that HM doesn't deserve credit for picking him.

You knew when HM was going to be the coach that he will ALWAYS rather pick a Big good player ahead of a small good player. Both Zane and Taute are bigger that Ludick.

I would agree on Fourie, but we have to bare in mind that he's only recently started playing on the flank and that he's still getting used to the position. to pick based only on the last few performances would be wrong.

I think HM and the management took calculated risks with this squad. And I think it will pay off.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Louw's selection is a good one, but he was already in the squad. He just kept him there. I gave HM credit when he first called him up, not going to do the same now when he just keeps him in the squad.

Brits' inclusion, yes... That is a good move.

I don't get why a coach looks at the size of a player. Ludik was in fine form all year, playing against the best players this world has to offer during the Super Rugby season.

Maybe he'll be in the squad next year.

 

[j'nuh]

Brits is a good selection. He's the flashiest hooker I've seen play. He does more damage in loose play than anyone else in the Sarries backline (not saying much tbf).

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Overall pretty happy with the squad (considering the availability of players);

I think Beats and Jannie are pretty much auto picks. Steenkamp and Cillers are great picks while I think the other props in SA need some work; Oosthuizen, Kitshoff and vd Merwe is who I have in my sights as future Bok incumbents but all three need to work on key areas.

With Bismarck out we still have trhee awesome hookers in Strauss, Ralepele and Brits. All three pretty even though they offer different strngths... I'd continue with Strauss but can't decide between Brits and Ralepele. Possibly Brits might be more handy if we were behind at the end while Ralepele is an all round menace and also brings a lot to the table off the bench.

Also happy with the locks.

Only 5 loosies? I suppose Etzebeth and Brits can cover blindside and openside at a pinch. Louw, Coetzee, Vermeulen and Alberts have made themselves the incumbents and form a well balanced unit. It'll be interesting to see who of Alberts and Coetzee gets the start. Botha as the bolter I can live with. Kriel, Schoeman and Stander the only other options IMO as ones for the future. Deon Fourie also had a crcking season TBF.

Glad for Vermaak for the call-up. I think it has been a long time coming. The only problem I see is we have 3 good 9's but no real incumbent. Hopefully I'll be abale to say otherwise at the end of the tour. Probably in Europe Pienaars experience with Ulster will se him get the nod. He has had a mixed bag for SA at 9 this year though.. but so has Hougaard. I blame much of that on our gameplan.

Lambie, Lambie, Lambie! Hope he gets the starts he deserves and with Taute touted for the fullback position we are finally seeing some sense. Jantjies a good man to have on the bench and then there is Steyn as an experienced campaigner if we have injury to the up-and-comers.

Habana out is a pity but he deserves the rest. Does HM see Mapoe as a center or a wing? JdV and JdJ to start is solid enough though I do hope JdV has better games than he has to date in recent outings.

Rhule/Mvovo and Pietersen! Wow, what a combo and with Taute at the bakc that is both solid and exciting (though with Rhule and a little more exciting than solid/proven- maybe Mapoe for better allround skillset and experience?)

Can we please see Taute in his prefered position? He has already shown he has the aptitude to start for the Bokke. No question marks there. What does he have to learn from Kirchner that he hasn't already shown?

 

[Draggs]

So, who will partner Pietersen? Juan de Jongh must start, so could Taute be shifted out wide? I hope not.
Deon Fourie and Louis Ludik can feel hard done-by, IMHO.

What I'd like to see:

Taute; Pietersen, de Jongh, de Villiers, Mvovo, Lambie, Pienaar; Steenkamp, Strauss, Cilliers, Etzebeth, Kruger, Louw, Alberts, Vermeulen; Brits, Mtawarira, du Plessis, Flip van der Merwe, Coetzee, Hougaard, Jantjies, Mapoe.

Hougaard can cover SH and wing; Lambie inside centre and fullback; Mapoe outside centre and wing. Pienaar can also cover outside half and fullback, to a lesser extent.

I hear about how Steyn is great for wet-fields (2009/10 Steyn), but when with the Boks, his boot goes to ****. Steyn returning to form would be a godsend for the Boks. Shut the game down with 15/20 to go.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah, I'm also not sold on Steyn being great for wet fields. I understand the rationale (Steyn's strength is/was kicking and kicking becomes more of a facotr on heavier fields) but don't necessarily agree with it as Steyn has been in dire form and also we have lost games against Ireland and Scotland- where Steyn should upposedly have been on form- in Europe that we should not have and where Steyn wasn't really a factor TBH.

I quite like your team Draggs, mine would be very similar;
Taute, Pietersen, De Jongh, JdV (c), Mvovo, Lambie, Pienaar, Vermeulen, Coetzee, Louw, Kruger, Etzebeth, Cilliers, Strauss, Steenkamp
Bench; Ralepele, Mtawarira, Du Plessis, Flip vd Merwe, Alberts, Hougaard, Jantjies, Kirchner LOL

I realize we don't need Kirchner and Ralepel as with De Jongh, Pietersen fit, Mvovo, Steenkamp and Mtawarira we comply to the 4 minimum non-whites in the 22 but I feel Ralepele has been good of the bench in the past and I'd stick to the local guy as far as possible and I'd want that extra 15 cover in Kirchner simply because I don't want to see Lambie needing to shift to the back.

I'm giving Beat and Jannie a rest although we could possibly look to target the Irish scrum if any. Just so sad we don't have Ludik along for the ride. Agreed Deon Fourie had a great season but I can understand his exclusion and there are only so many spots available. I'm very tempted to shift Lambie tp 12 with Pienaar at and Hougaard at 9 just to get rid of JdV but I think Lambie needs to secure that 10 jersey with Taute at 15 looking forward and I'll stick to JdV for this year still until the young guys have had some more gametime next year and we'll see who puts their hand up.

 

[Big Ewis]

it suuuuuuuuucks Habana won't be playing !!
All in all, there are LOTS of missing stars and good players in those November tests...

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Man, look at the list of players we are missing due to injury.


Bismarck du Plessis
Juan Smith
Schalk Burger
Bryan Habana
Francois Steyn
Siya Kolisi
Andries Bekker
Pierre Spies
Coenie Oosthuizen
Johan Goosen

 

[TRF_heineken]

Man, look at the list of players we are missing due to injury.


Bismarck du Plessis
Juan de Jongh
Schalk Burger
Bryan Habana
Francois Steyn
Siya Kolisi
Andries Bekker
Pierre Spies
Coenie Oosthuizen
Johan Goosen

Typo there??

Lol!!

My team will be:

1. Guthro Steenkamp
2. Schalk Brits
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Jeandre Kruger
6. Francois Louw (if he's not injured... We'll hear tonight) otherwise Marcell Coetzee
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Jano Vermaak
10. Pat Lambie
11. Raymond Rhule
12. JDV
13. JDJ
14. JP Peterson
15. Jaco Taute

16. Chilliboy
17. Pat Cilliers
18. Beast
19. Franco Van Der Merwe
20. Arno Botha
21. Francois Hougaard
22. Elton Jantjies

My reason for picking Guthro and Schalk is that they are now used to the new scrum adjustments and might help our other guys focus more on the breakdown parts.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Man, look at the list of players we are missing due to injury.


Bismarck du Plessis
Juan de Jongh
Schalk Burger
Bryan Habana
Francois Steyn
Siya Kolisi
Andries Bekker
Pierre Spies
Coenie Oosthuizen
Johan Goosen

Jeesh, Eze. You nearly gave me a heart attack saying JdJ is also out. Also, how can you leave out J Smith! I know the man hasn't played rugby in an age but he's the best in his position in the world when fit IMO. Most valuable Bok apart from an on-form Matfield or FdP.

Typo there??

Lol!!

My team will be:

1. Guthro Steenkamp
2. Schalk Brits
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Jeandre Kruger
6. Francois Louw (if he's not injured... We'll hear tonight) otherwise Marcell Coetzee
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Jano Vermaak
10. Pat Lambie
11. Raymond Rhule
12. JDV
13. JDJ
14. JP Peterson
15. Jaco Taute

16. Chilliboy
17. Pat Cilliers
18. Beast
19. Franco Van Der Merwe
20. Arno Botha
21. Francois Hougaard
22. Elton Jantjies

My reason for picking Guthro and Schalk is that they are now used to the new scrum adjustments and might help our other guys focus more on the breakdown parts.

No comments. It seems like everyone is more or less on the same page. When those injured guys return and our young centers have had a year of SR the discussions will get interesting again LOL.

 

[TRF_heineken]

No comments. It seems like everyone is more or less on the same page. When those injured guys return and our young centers have had a year of SR the discussions will get interesting again LOL.

Yeah, we are all on the same bus, but we all know that HM is going to pick Kirchner and Morne...