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SOB lays into Gats

Well its understandable the kiwi press dont like what SOB had to say. How dare anyone suggest that the All Blacks were held to a draw by anything other than the greatest coached side in Lions history! Coached by a brilliant Kiwi too! How dare an irishman shatter those truths.

For me you have to ask the following questions:

Is SOB a known moaner? No

Is SOB a well respected player? Yes

Is Howley considered a good but limited coach by most people? Yes

Should a player speak out if things are wrong? After the fact yes.

I think SOB might have also been a bit annoyed that Gatland and Howley have appeared to have taken credit for the work of 2 of his team mates. That would **** me off
 
Tallshort said:
Well its understandable the kiwi press dont like what SOB had to say. How dare anyone suggest that the All Blacks were held to a draw by anything other than the greatest coached side in Lions history! Coached by a brilliant Kiwi too! How dare an irishman shatter those truths.

For me you have to ask the following questions:

Is SOB a known moaner? No

Is SOB a well respected player? Yes

Is Howley considered a good but limited coach by most people? Yes

Should a player speak out if things are wrong? After the fact yes.

I think SOB might have also been a bit annoyed that Gatland and Howley have appeared to have taken credit for the work of 2 of his team mates. That would **** me off
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Summed up perfectly there.

If the Kiwi's want to believe it was all Gats and Howley I welcome them to though...
 
ncurd said:
Well I make a point not agree with with Torygraph on prici0al

But honestly it's just tone as to why are angry. They seem to think we were pretty lucky to draw (we were) but they also don't say that under better coaching we'd have succeeded. In fact they don't seem to explain why Howley didnt deserve any critism other than you shouldn't cruise him. That not an argument it's just nonsense.
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While you can all argue that under a decent coach, or with better coaching, the Lions might have won the series, I will argue that with two half decent referees instead of the two French plonkers we got lumbered with, the result would probably have been 3-0 to NZ. The only difference between these two positions is that I actually have a point... (remember, the Lions were gifted the win in #2 and the draw in #3 from two of the worst, and most controversial end of game decisions ever seen; decisions that went completely against the way those situations had been previously refereed).
 
I don't want to argue about the decision I don't remember you being quite so vehement in your assessment of them at the time. (Not saying you agreed with them just that you didn't think they that controversial and gifted the Lions the draw). Plus there the simple fact on both decision NZ still had to score and Barrett getting it in between the posts is by no means garunteed.

Not going to argue that New Zealand could of won 3-0 actually that's kind of why I think this management gets undue praise. The second match should never have been close if your opposition no matter who they are loses a man you should be winning comfortably. The Lions inability to capitalise on that opportunity is a prime in why I think the coaching staff were poor.

I don't think we would of won 3-0 but 2-1 was a real chance.
 
Tigs Man said:
Trust a New Zealander to bring up the ref again typical. :p
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And trust a pommie to blame a welshman! Typical!
mooning.gif
 
smartcooky said:
While you can all argue that under a decent coach, or with better coaching, the Lions might have won the series, I will argue that with two half decent referees instead of the two French plonkers we got lumbered with, the result would probably have been 3-0 to NZ. The only difference between these two positions is that I actually have a point... (remember, the Lions were gifted the win in #2 and the draw in #3 from two of the worst, and most controversial end of game decisions ever seen; decisions that went completely against the way those situations had been previously refereed).
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Test three was wrong, test two was a tackle in the air and similar decisions had gone that way before, an incident with Rob Kearney in the 2013 NZ test for example. If they are reversed NZ still need to turn the ball over, go three quarters of the length of the pitch and score to win and need Cruden (I think) to knock over a difficult penalty on his bad side to win 3-0... The Lions with a good coaching staff who realise that they're going to need playmakers and thus not pick the worst 12 in the squad with the less creative 10 option along with picking the only out of form lock would obviously have a better chance at winning the first test.

What I read into these comments is that SOB thinks the coaches bottled the first test, were bailed out by Sexton and Farrell in the second and took it too easy for the third having go the one win which was probably their goal. So I don't think SOB's claim is anymore outrageous than yours because there are so many variables.
 
"Gatland attempted to contact O'Brien when the comments were first out in the public domain. "I rang and left a message to say I was disappointed. He texted me three weeks later to say that he had just cleared his voicemail. And that he had been taken out context, or some things. I texted to say he could call me at any time but I've not heard back from him."

I didn't like the way O'Brien went about it in the first place. This is Gatland's take but, if accurate, that's poor from O'Brien.

"Billy Vunipola, who missed the tour through injury, also spoke out saying they would have won 3-0 had Eddie Jones been in charge. "I've never had any involvement with Billy," Gatland said. "That's the disappointing thing. You get second-hand people coming in and making comments as well."

Can't argue with that.

I'm not saying Gatland is the best thing since sliced bread, but at the end of the day he was just a bloke trying to do a difficult job to the best of his ability and deserved a little more respect from within.

Will be interesting to see if O'Brien intends going into coaching and what he expects from his players if he does.
 
Spot on, OH. I'm no fan of Gatland but he did the best he could against the backdrop of almost universal and unnecessary negative press.
 
Oh was poor Gatland's feelings hurt....

Sorry all critism I've read outside the Kiwi press and written here has been entirely justified.

People didn't like SOB said it in the press but he only confirmed what a lot observers speculated what had been going on. And as fans of the game I think we do deserve to know what is going if there are problems behind the scenes.

On Vunipola well its second hand critism but his brother and cousin were on tour so its likely very well informed second hamd critism.
 
ncurd said:
Oh was poor Gatland's feelings hurt....

Sorry all critism I've read outside the Kiwi press and written here has been entirely justified.

People didn't like SOB said it in the press but he only confirmed what a lot observers speculated what had been going on. And as fans of the game I think we do deserve to know what is going if there are problems behind the scenes.

On Vunipola well its second hand critism but his brother and cousin were on tour so its likely very well informed second hamd critism.
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Agree but the Kiwi press were shocking.
 
Tallshort said:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11933974

according to Gregor Paul the reason Gatland is so upset is because he was really using the Lions tour as a way to replace Hansen....

Obviously Paul's article with Gatland as a clown had nothing to do with Gatlands mood
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Spot on.
His reputation was already slipping due to him way way overstaying his welcome in Wales.
A successful lions tour vs new zealand was his big shot to put his name in the mix, and a draw would have been a great result for him....until players start coming out and saying he's a shitheel
 
Gatland implies that SOB was stupid thinking that the Lions could win that tour 3-0 in this article. If that doesn't convince you he's the self serving ******** in this debacle I don't know what will... He went out thinking he'll win every game on that tour otherwise he shouldn't have gone.
 
ncurd said:
And as fans of the game I think we do deserve to know what is going if there are problems behind the scenes.
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To what purpose exactly? Sure it's interesting and keeps us in gossip, but why do we "deserve" it?

A "fan" in the professional game is nothing more than a paying customer, whether at a turnstile or to a TV company. What organisation keeps its customers up to date with what's going on behind the scenes unless it has to, especially relating to the performance of specific individuals? Different matter if you're a shareholder who has invested in it.

As customers, if we don't like the product we vote with our feet and wallets; of course any organisation wants to keep its customers happy and many actively engage with them within certain parameters. But there's a big difference in being of interest to the public and transparent governance.
 

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