[Six Nations 2018] - Ireland

[The Jones Boy]

Under the old format the competition was generally over by the third game.

Ireland has bigger problems anyway, you have Garces as your ref for the England game.
Not a great ref at the best of times and always likely to go out of his way against the home team to 'prove' that he isn't biased.

 

[saulan]

Sooo...

Let's just be optimistic for a sec and say we will beat France and Wales. Now, following on from that, we will be realistic. We won't get a TBP over France or Wales. England will get a TBP over Italy, and very likely against Scotland. If we managed to beat England, but they got a LBP, they would still win the championship. Wouldn't that be just, well, ****? Would probably provide for an insane game of rugby at least. Would probably be good revenge for the English, after that faithful day in 2015...

So in addition to having to be quite optimistic about our chances, we also need to hope to God that England don't score 4 tries against Scotland and that we beat them by 8+pts AND/OR we, provided we even win, get a TBP over France and Wales.

Hmmm. Idk, I think I like the old system better. Time will tell. I guess this sort of situation could theoretically also arise under the old format.

In the scenario you are describing under the old system, both England and Ireland would end up on ten points and the winner would be decided on match points and then points difference (and then the team which has scored the most tries). Essentially the team would beat Italy by the most points would win the six nations. In this way, the team that is the most competitive throughout the season wins (losing within bonus points, assuming that they both get the four try bonus point from the Italy game).

Seems like a better system to me.

 

[munstermuffin]

Rob Kearney may be out for season with bicep injury

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Sooo...

Let's just be optimistic for a sec and say we will beat France and Wales. Now, following on from that, we will be realistic. We won't get a TBP over France or Wales. England will get a TBP over Italy, and very likely against Scotland. If we managed to beat England, but they got a LBP, they would still win the championship. Wouldn't that be just, well, ****? Would probably provide for an insane game of rugby at least. Would probably be good revenge for the English, after that faithful day in 2015...

So in addition to having to be quite optimistic about our chances, we also need to hope to God that England don't score 4 tries against Scotland and that we beat them by 8+pts AND/OR we, provided we even win, get a TBP over France and Wales.

Hmmm. Idk, I think I like the old system better. Time will tell. I guess this sort of situation could theoretically also arise under the old format.

I can't imagine a world where preventing England from winning a slam on the last day of the 6 nations is ****, they won the championship in 2001 and 2011 but I think we enjoyed second place a lot more. I've said before, even when we were winning championships, that a win on pd, or bps in this case, is a nice bonus but doesn't prove a whole lot in any given year. Winning consistent championships shows you you're the best. I could see a high scoring game against Wales happening too, they aren't the most composed side.

Rob Kearney may be out for season with bicep injury

That could end up being a positive for Ireland but its awful for RK, he was getting himself into Lions conversations being the best performing 15 after Hogg, Leinster need Isa back to fitness asap too because Kirchner isn't up to European level.

 

[munstermuffin]

May be best for Ireland I agree. Snd as you'll know I don't think Kearney was worthy of start but will admit he has been playing well and it's a bit sad that he suffered an injury. Agreed he was behind Hogg and possibly Liam Williams depending on where you see him.
Kirchner I agree with but wonder with Isa struggling with knee what story is with 15 for Leinster. Does Carbery go there?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

May be best for Ireland I agree. Snd as you'll know I don't think Kearney was worthy of start but will admit he has been playing well and it's a bit sad that he suffered an injury. Agreed he was behind Hogg and possibly Liam Williams depending on where you see him.
Kirchner I agree with but wonder with Isa struggling with knee what story is with 15 for Leinster. Does Carbery go there?

I think it'd have to be Kirchner, its a drop off from a world class player in Isa and an international class 15 in Kearney though but with two injuries in a specialist position that must be accepted.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think it'd have to be Kirchner, its a drop off from a world class player in Isa and an international class 15 in Kearney though but with two injuries in a specialist position that must be accepted.

Would it be crazy though to play Carberry or a winger. Seeing as there's options there. Kirchner is a specialist 15 but is at level like saying Paul Marshall a specialist 9.

Only good thing on all this is time is on their side.

Back on Ireland we got call last night Peter O'Mahony is not to play this weekend.

 

[ncurd]

An interesting point is in recent years where we've lost on points difference its not because we didn't rack up the points against Italy but because we couldn't against other teams (who usually raise their game against us)

2015 we score 30 more points against Italy than Ireland's 23.(Wales did score 41 but then they came third further proving the point).
2014 we score 41 more points against Italy than Ireland's 39. (differnce was 10 so Italy game had no bearing on the result)
2013 we score 7 more points against Italy than Wales' 27. (A year it actually held true but the total difference 40 so the Italy game had little bearing on the result of the championship)

So the idea that competition in a draw is decided by who scores most points against Italy is false.

I should note BPs wouldn't of made a minor difference to the competition in recents years so I generally find the arguement for or against silly.

 

[munstermuffin]

The fact there is uneven games makes BP iffy.
I'd love if it was 2 sets of 4 with relegation promotion and play 6 games like Rugby Championship

 

[ncurd]

The problem with the 4/4 split is every other year we'd just have a weaker tournament as one of France/Wales/Ireland/England will be playing in the lower league whilst they completely destroy all comers within it.

You could have a playoff game but that causes a barrier for entry. Would Scotland benefited more in recent years from playing againt minnows they know they should beat than playing the big boys losing and trying their best to get better?

I'm all up for relegation for the '6th' nation but I don't think making it 4 nations will benefit anyone.

 

[ncurd]

The uneven nature of the tournament is why the ultimate holy grail is back to back grand slams and has never been acheived in the 6 nations era (Wales 1908-1909, England 1913-1914, 1991-1992, France 1997-1998).

Going back to whether Ireland should be happy if they win in Dublin just preventing an England grand slam. Damn well they should as thay'd have stopped this England side making the history books on two fronts (longest game winning streak as well).

Not saying 100% that will be the position in 4 weeks but if I gambled I'd place money on England being in that position.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Would it be crazy though to play Carberry or a winger. Seeing as there's options there. Kirchner is a specialist 15 but is at level like saying Paul Marshall a specialist 9.

Only good thing on all this is time is on their side.

Back on Ireland we got call last night Peter O'Mahony is not to play this weekend.

I think it would be, Carbery has only played 15 for 40 odd mins against Aus and was a defensive liability without much of an idea on positioning, Kirchner is at least a good tackler and positions himself well if lacking under a high ball and returning the play. Trying to fit Sexton, JC and Ross Byrne into a 23 sounds good but Sexton and JC is better than any other club side has anyway.

I agree with everything @ncurd has said here.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think it would be, Carbery has only played 15 for 40 odd mins against Aus and was a defensive liability without much of an idea on positioning, Kirchner is at least a good tackler and positions himself well if lacking under a high ball and returning the play. Trying to fit Sexton, JC and Ross Byrne into a 23 sounds good but Sexton and JC is better than any other club side has anyway.

I agree with everything @ncurd has said here.

True but a great 10 can be hampered if he hasn't the help. Biggest issue I think Leinster have is now they've quality but alot of fragile players. In that Sexton O'Brien Cronin Isa Carbery and lesser extent Henshaw are all very liable to ****les.

 

[corny]

Under the old format the competition was generally over by the third game.

Ireland has bigger problems anyway, you have Garces as your ref for the England game.
Not a great ref at the best of times and always likely to go out of his way against the home team to 'prove' that he isn't biased.

That's why I think SH refs shouldn't be allowed officiate at this tournament. The difference in interpretation north and south is noticeable. Garces is a super ref and will do a good job in an intense atmosphere. The likes of Peyper, Walsh, Gardner, Joubert, etc regularly come here and **** things up by our standards.

- - - Updated - - -

Sooo...

Let's just be optimistic for a sec and say we will beat France and Wales. Now, following on from that, we will be realistic. We won't get a TBP over France or Wales. England will get a TBP over Italy, and very likely against Scotland. If we managed to beat England, but they got a LBP, they would still win the championship. Wouldn't that be just, well, ****? Would probably provide for an insane game of rugby at least. Would probably be good revenge for the English, after that faithful day in 2015...

So in addition to having to be quite optimistic about our chances, we also need to hope to God that England don't score 4 tries against Scotland and that we beat them by 8+pts AND/OR we, provided we even win, get a TBP over France and Wales.

Hmmm. Idk, I think I like the old system better. Time will tell. I guess this sort of situation could theoretically also arise under the old format.

I think we should worry about France and the English should worry about Scotland. No gimmes in those ga!mes at all.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

That's why I think SH refs shouldn't be allowed officiate at this tournament. The difference in interpretation north and south is noticeable. Garces is a super ref and will do a good job in an intense atmosphere. The likes of Peyper, Walsh, Gardner, Joubert, etc regularly come here and **** things up by our standards.

Really the SH refs should just ref to the rule book not the just their version of it. I hate the whole premise of a SH style game.

 

[corny]

Really the SH refs should just ref to the rule book not the just their version of it. I hate the whole premise of a SH style game.

You're missing the fact that the law has to be interpreted and like it or loathe it there is a difference in how the law is interpreted north and south.

 

[mosfeldt]

That's why I think SH refs shouldn't be allowed officiate at this tournament. The difference in interpretation north and south is noticeable. Garces is a super ref and will do a good job in an intense atmosphere. The likes of Peyper, Walsh, Gardner, Joubert, etc regularly come here and **** things up by our standards.

- - - Updated - - -



I think we should worry about France and the English should worry about Scotland. No gimmes in those ga!mes at all.

No doubt, I was just saying in the best case scenario that we did beat France and Wales and England, we could still very easily lose... But as Alpha Bro said beating England and denying them 2 records would be juuust as sweet

 

[The Jones Boy]

Garces is a super ref and will do a good job in an intense atmosphere.
.

No, no, no, no and NO.
He is some way off that yet.

 

[munstermuffin]

Not sure if it means alot but strange Ireland said POM was struggling with hammer and he cane back to us Monday, trained fine but was pulled back in to Irish camp and trained perfectly.

Sexton seems fine as does Rob Kearney too

 

[big ginger 8]

Kearney was never reported as injured by the camp. Schmidt literally said he had a bruise on his arm. A day or two later the fecking Indo reports he's having surgery and people run with it.