Sexton vs Trinh-Duc

[Melhor Time]

I'm not. It's just that there are mainly UK and Irish people on this forum, and you are always debating about the same names : Flood / Sexton (sometimes O'Gara, rarely Scottish or Welsh fly halves - and some of them are outstanding). I'm just trying to give Trinh Duc a little bit more credit because he really deserves it, but as most of you are not watching France/Montpellier games, Trinh Duc is just an "other random fly half in Europe".

It is unfortunate that you are correct. It would be nice for people to forget about there own set of interests and be objective. Sorry to anyone for my words but saying Sexton is better than Trinh-Duc is truely bizzare and shows (a) a lack of understanding of the art of being a flyhalf and (b) a lack of experience playing in the position. BTW I played there last season before breaking my ankle and are now back to fullback.

There is a response to a post of mine on this thread from yesterday with the poster, who shall remain nameless, saying Trinh-Duc is not as good as Sexton because Sexton has better team mates, won the Heineken Cup and he says he hasn´t seen much of Montpellier. Go figure. Lets be adults here - if you want to compare two players then at least do so knowing who they are and by watching both play! The poster criticizes Trinh-Duc based on the 6 Nations performance vs Ireland in Dublin in 2011 in which France won. The previous year, in Paris, France won by a big score and Trinh-Duc was man of the match. Again, it reads like I like Sexton so much because I am Irish and how dare you suggest a player that I don´t see much of is better than him.

I´ve had run-ins with people on this forum saying Juan Martín Hernández is average. The root of the problem is the same - a lack of time watching French league matches. If anyone thinks Hernández is not a great player thats fine but at the same time if anyone actually follows him and sees himn in action and still says he is below being one of the best on the planet then its strange and makes for a genuine debate.

This thread is silly - Sexton is not better than Trinh-Duc. Only made the Leinster side when Felipe Contepomi left for France. Only made the Irish sie when O´Gara started to struggle. He is an outstanding player but the best in europe plays for Montpellier and is heading into the World Cup as a major threat to the All Blacks and all other contenders.

 

[lucky number 7]

This thread is silly - Sexton is not better than Trinh-Duc. Only made the Leinster side when Felipe Contepomi left for France. Only made the Irish sie when O´Gara started to struggle. He is an outstanding player but the best in europe plays for Montpellier and is heading into the World Cup as a major threat to the All Blacks and all other contenders.

No problems with your opinion on T-D that's for you to decide ...your comments on Sexton are shoddy....Sexton came on in the Semi Final Vs Harlequins in 09 at the age of 23 (young for a ten at that level) and won the Heineken cup ... He took over for O'Gara once he became the clear best outhalf in Ireland ...since then He has really been one of the top players in europe ..often the difference for Leinster and Ireland between a win and a loss...

Would also add that as it stands Sexton is a far far better 10 than Contepomi was for Leinster.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It is unfortunate that you are correct. It would be nice for people to forget about there own set of interests and be objective. Sorry to anyone for my words but saying Sexton is better than Trinh-Duc is truely bizzare and shows (a) a lack of understanding of the art of being a flyhalf and (b) a lack of experience playing in the position. BTW I played there last season before breaking my ankle and are now back to fullback.

There is a response to a post of mine on this thread from yesterday with the poster, who shall remain nameless, saying Trinh-Duc is not as good as Sexton because Sexton has better team mates, won the Heineken Cup and he says he hasn´t seen much of Montpellier. Go figure. Lets be adults here - if you want to compare two players then at least do so knowing who they are and by watching both play! The poster criticizes Trinh-Duc based on the 6 Nations performance vs Ireland in Dublin in 2011 in which France won. The previous year, in Paris, France won by a big score and Trinh-Duc was man of the match. Again, it reads like I like Sexton so much because I am Irish and how dare you suggest a player that I don´t see much of is better than him.

I´ve had run-ins with people on this forum saying Juan Martín Hernández is average. The root of the problem is the same - a lack of time watching French league matches. If anyone thinks Hernández is not a great player thats fine but at the same time if anyone actually follows him and sees himn in action and still says he is below being one of the best on the planet then its strange and makes for a genuine debate.

This thread is silly - Sexton is not better than Trinh-Duc. Only made the Leinster side when Felipe Contepomi left for France. Only made the Irish sie when O´Gara started to struggle. He is an outstanding player but the best in europe plays for Montpellier and is heading into the World Cup as a major threat to the All Blacks and all other contenders.

It's quite obvious you're talking about me and why keep me nameless the comment is on the last page.
Anyway you say ''Lets be adults'' directly after you completely manipulate my words, very mature. I said Sexton can run a backline better than T-D and has been doing so with a ''past it D'Arcy'' outside him. I also said that under pressure ion the biggest stage of them all Sexton scored 27 points, something that T-D couldn't do if he could place kick. I said I haven't seen much of Montpellier but I have seen them enough to form an opinion. I also play out half and think T-D is more of an inside centre with the scrum half controlling the game. I don't think T-D effectivly controls games or plays well under pressure. I'm not saying T-D is not as good a player as Sexton just not as good an out half.(cliche) Also from what I have seen from your posts you have total disregard for Northern Hemisphere rugby that isn't French.
And big deal that Sexton had to wait for an oppurtunity to play for Leinster and Ireland. I'm sure T-D never had to wait for an oppurtunity to play for Montpellier or France.(sarcasm)

And Lucky it was Munster in the 09 semi.

 

[DorceOutSide]

i would prefer this young talent at ten for ireland but thats just my opinion.

 

[superprop]

MELHOR TIME
You say people don't watch Hernandez, this is mainly due to chronic injury. You also give out about people not watching top14 I at least watch the highlight show every week. After Tolouse I probably watch Montepellier the most and apart from the Scotland match I watched every minute of France's 6 nations. I can't imagine the same goes for you with the magners as I've been lead to believe that it's only aired on teressterial T.V. or that you've watched all of Leinsters H Cup games and Ireland's matches.

Please don't ask us to watch paint dry when you don't watch Blue Magic (thats right I said it).

Ever since he was 16 Sexton has been in high pressure situations and come out on top. However with Trinh-Duc I've never seen him shine in a proper high pressure situation I'll watch him carefully at the W.C. but Sexton has the steel that is essential to a good 10.

 

[smartcooky]

I agree.

We get a weekly 30 minute highlights package of the Top 14 on The Rugby Channel (which I do watch every week). If we are lucky, we get the semis and the final in May-June

It is virtually impossible to get any gauge of relative player skills from a 30 minute highlights package including all the highlight from 7 matches (4 minutes per game) because by definition, we get to see all the good bits and not much of in the way of mistakes, e.g., if you watch a highlights package of the Blues, you'd think Steven Brett was brilliant, but try watching a whole game, and you'll soon come to a different conclusion.

The only real chance we have to see full match coverage of Top 14 teams playing during the regular season is when they are involved in the Heineken Cup

 

[profitius]

It is unfortunate that you are correct. It would be nice for people to forget about there own set of interests and be objective. Sorry to anyone for my words but saying Sexton is better than Trinh-Duc is truely bizzare and shows (a) a lack of understanding of the art of being a flyhalf and (b) a lack of experience playing in the position. BTW I played there last season before breaking my ankle and are now back to fullback.

There is a response to a post of mine on this thread from yesterday with the poster, who shall remain nameless, saying Trinh-Duc is not as good as Sexton because Sexton has better team mates, won the Heineken Cup and he says he hasn´t seen much of Montpellier. Go figure. Lets be adults here - if you want to compare two players then at least do so knowing who they are and by watching both play! The poster criticizes Trinh-Duc based on the 6 Nations performance vs Ireland in Dublin in 2011 in which France won. The previous year, in Paris, France won by a big score and Trinh-Duc was man of the match. Again, it reads like I like Sexton so much because I am Irish and how dare you suggest a player that I don´t see much of is better than him.

I´ve had run-ins with people on this forum saying Juan Martín Hernández is average. The root of the problem is the same - a lack of time watching French league matches. If anyone thinks Hernández is not a great player thats fine but at the same time if anyone actually follows him and sees himn in action and still says he is below being one of the best on the planet then its strange and makes for a genuine debate.

This thread is silly - Sexton is not better than Trinh-Duc. Only made the Leinster side when Felipe Contepomi left for France. Only made the Irish sie when O´Gara started to struggle. He is an outstanding player but the best in europe plays for Montpellier and is heading into the World Cup as a major threat to the All Blacks and all other contenders.

Whats T-D like as a kicker? Thats an important aspect of being a top class 10. Can T-D perform under pressure? I havn't seen much of him but from what I've seen he has been very inconsistant. I remember seeing him a few years ago and saying he is a disaster. Every time he touched the ball he gave it away, he missed tackles etc. It might have been a bad spell he was going through. I've also seen him play very well. Consistency is important.

As for Sexton being behind Contepomi, so what? Cheika obviously likes Contepomi and has brought him to SF. Leinsters fortunes turned around as soon as Contepomi got replaced by Sexton. He is a much better 10. As a Munster fan I think Sexton is easily a batter player overall than ROG. And I rate ROG highly having seen him win so many games single handily. So T-D must be up there with Dan Carter if you're correct.

Does T-D take kicks for Montpellier?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ever since he was 16 Sexton has been in high pressure situations and come out on top.

That's just a lie
Up until recently he was one of the most hit or miss players going - he'd have a run of very good matches then be absolute dog s**t in the next one when his confidence got knocked

 

[Aout]

Whats T-D like as a kicker? Thats an important aspect of being a top class 10.

Trinh Duc is not a first choice kicker, but this is not something unusual in France. In almost one out of three TOP 14 team it is not the fly half who kicks. I don't understand why people say "a fly half HAS TO kick". Would you say Sonny Bill Williams is not a world class player because he can't kick ? You wouldn't. We're talking about TD skills when he wears the n10 jersey. Not about his kicking skills. As long as there's an other kicker in your team, it doesn't matter wheter or not your fly half can kick penalties.

Can T-D perform under pressure? I havn't seen much of him but from what I've seen he has been very inconsistant. I remember seeing him a few years ago and saying he is a disaster. Every time he touched the ball he gave it away, he missed tackles etc. It might have been a bad spell he was going through. I've also seen him play very well. Consistency is important.

It was probably a very long time ago. When France won the Grand Slam (and completely annihilated Ireland - where Sexton was playing-), he was there. When France defeated the All Blacks last summer, he was there. 1 year ago when they won against the Boks, he was there. He was also there when Montpellier played the Top 14 final for the first time of its history.

To be very honest, over the two last years, he was probably the most consistant French back. Except against Italy, I can't remember him not having [at least] at decent game.

As for Sexton being behind Contepomi, so what? Cheika obviously likes Contepomi and has brought him to SF. Leinsters fortunes turned around as soon as Contepomi got replaced by Sexton. He is a much better 10. As a Munster fan I think Sexton is easily a batter player overall than ROG. And I rate ROG highly having seen him win so many games single handily. So T-D must be up there with Dan Carter if you're correct.

He's different. But once again I don't understand your arguments. If Contepomi was Leinster (and won the Hcup) first choice, it's because Cheika preferred him to Sexton, not because he was better than Sexton. Strong argumentation.

Does T-D take kicks for Montpellier?

He doesn't.

France is going to play Ireland in one month, you'll be able to watch by yourself why we "love" TD so much. It's not because of his haircut or because he was born in the same region as us. It's because he's skilled. Incredibly skilled.

 

[Logorrhea]

That's just a lie.

Its not a f*ckin lie, its his opinion, an opinion backed up by performances in the HEC over 3 years (in which he has played in two finals and won two winners medals). Yours seems to be based on two international matches this year in which the entire team was playing like a pile of shite, which were followed up by the destruction of England. He has bad days, like everyone, but hes no flake.

This thread is silly - Sexton is not better than Trinh-Duc. Only made the Leinster side when Felipe Contepomi left for France. Only made the Irish sie when O´Gara started to struggle. He is an outstanding player but the best in europe plays for Montpellier and is heading into the World Cup as a major threat to the All Blacks and all other contenders.

o
I agree with most of what you say, but like everyone else, you focus on the positives of one player, and express no informed opinion of the other. You are doing exactly what you are complaining about.

Incidently, just so you are all aware, the TOP14 is broadcasted on free to air services of Setanta and ESPN. Setanta in particular have one or two live matches a week and a highlights package. We have the oppportunity to see quite a lot of TOP14 rugby. Obviously most Irish kids here arent allowed up after 10pm so they dont get to see it, but dont assume we only see HEC and International rugby.

We're talking about TD skills when he wears the n10 jersey. Not about his kicking skills. As long as there's an other kicker in your team, it doesn't matter wheter or not your fly half can kick penalties.

But its a positive for Sexton that we dont need another kicker we have one. He can do quite a bit of what Trinh-duc can do, but he can kick like a mofo too. Trinh-duc on the other hand doesnt have that responsibility, and so doesnt have that pressure. He gets to just play the game hes good at and join everyone else in blaming the kicker when it goes wrong.

When France defeated the All Blacks last summer, he was there. 1 year ago when they won against the Boks, he was there. He was also there when Montpellier played the Top 14 final for the first time of its history.

He was also the fly half when France lost quite timidly to England, and quite comically to Italy.

Sexton was there three years ago when we won the HEC, he was also there this year when he scored 27 points or so in the final (scoring two tries) while he again won the HEC. Interstingly enough he was also man of the match in the Ireland England game. Why cant you tell both sides of the story?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Its not a f*ckin lie, its his opinion, an opinion backed up by performances in the HEC over 3 years (in which he has played in two finals and won two winners medals). Yours seems to be based on two international matches this year in which the entire team was playing like a pile of shite, which were followed up by the destruction of England. He has bad days, like everyone, but hes no flake.

I think Sextons been great the last season, it was the previous years where he was well known for being a confidence player
He'd miss the first kick of the day and the rest of his game would just go to pots.

 

[Aout]

Is it a sporting achievment to beat the English at home (no offense to Englishmen, but I'm not putting England in the same category as NZ/AUS/SA) ?

And about the England v France game, if France had won he would have been man of the match.

 

[profitius]

Trinh Duc is not a first choice kicker, but this is not something unusual in France. In almost one out of three TOP 14 team it is not the fly half who kicks. I don't understand why people say "a fly half HAS TO kick". Would you say Sonny Bill Williams is not a world class player because he can't kick ? You wouldn't. We're talking about TD skills when he wears the n10 jersey. Not about his kicking skills. As long as there's an other kicker in your team, it doesn't matter wheter or not your fly half can kick penalties.

Theres nothing wrong with not taking the kicks. Its good to see that French scrum halfs are able to take the kicks.

To be very honest, over the two last years, he was probably the most consistant French back. Except against Italy, I can't remember him not having [at least] at decent game.

Well we'll see how he does in the world cup. He has shown some great skill from what I've seen but also he had some poor games.

He's different. But once again I don't understand your arguments. If Contepomi was Leinster (and won the Hcup) first choice, it's because Cheika preferred him to Sexton, not because he was better than Sexton. Strong argumentation.

At the start of the 08/09 season Isa Nacewa was second choice 10 behind Contepomi. At the end Sexton was first choice and an important member of Leinster winning the HEC. I think Contepomi is more of a 12 myself.

Does T-D take kicks for Montpellier?

He doesn't.

France is going to play Ireland in one month, you'll be able to watch by yourself why we "love" TD so much. It's not because of his haircut or because he was born in the same region as us. It's because he's skilled. Incredibly skilled.

Yes there are other players who can kick for France but thats like saying Sexton doesn't need to get the backline moving because theres other players playing for Leinster who can do it. That makes no sense when comparing players. If there was a transfer market for players Sexton would be worth more. Its that simple. Don't underestimate the value of a good kicker.

ROG has won loads of games on his own and is great at managing a game. Hes completely different from Trinh-Duc but Munster wouldn't swap them. Sexton is a better all round player than ROG in my opinion. Looking at the U20 world cup George Ford looks to be another fantastic 10 in the making.

I've nothing against T-D and hope France and himself has a good world cup but Sexton is easily a more valuable player and people who say he isn't don't understand rugby.

 

[Logorrhea]

I think Sextons been great the last season, it was the previous years where he was well known for being a confidence player
He'd miss the first kick of the day and the rest of his game would just go to pots.

You dissagreed with Sextons history of coming out on top in high pressure situations. You called the guy who said that a liar.

Toby Flood bottled his kicks twice this year in the Aviva, he was scared shitless and froze. Brock James did it in the RDS a while back too, ROG has a history, especially in his early career, of missing vital kicks.

Can you point to a few specific situations where you feel Sexton bottled his kicking? Any games that would actually justify that kind of reputation that you believe is well known? Games like his International debut, when he kicked 7 from 7 in a gale. Maybe the HEC semi against Munster, or the final against Leicester where he dropped that goal from the half-way. You could also look at last year, or even this years Semi and Final. I'm struggling to identify any games, aside from the Scotland game this year maybe, when Sexton seemed to struggle.

Its another lazy assumption, like Aouts opinion on Sextons defense.

Is it a sporting achievment to beat the English at home

Of course it is. Should I have pointed to the time Sexton kicked the goals that beat South Africa?

 

[lucky number 7]

You dissagreed with Sextons history of coming out on top in high pressure situations. You called the guy who said that a liar.

Toby Flood bottled his kicks twice this year in the Aviva. He was scared shitless and froze. Brock James did it in the RDS a while back too, ROG has a history, especially in his early career, of missing vital kicks.

Can you point to any specific situations where you feel Sexton bottled his kicking? Any games that would actually justify that kind of reputation that you believe is well known?

A little bit at the start of his international career if memory serves...he kicked well Vs Fiji in the end of 09 if memory serves and against SA too but the 2010 six nations was a bit dodgy if I remember correctly ...although its a possibility that I don't

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Christ, I'm not the only one who thinks he WAS a confidence player

Also Magicman was implying that he's never choked since he was 16 - no player has done that

 

[superprop]

Christ, I'm not the only one who thinks he WAS a confidence player

Also Magicman was implying that he's never choked since he was 16 - no player has done that

I'm not saying that, despite what many of you think I'm not an idiot. I'm saying he's come through things that would have ruined many other players. He performs in the high pressure situations. Some say about the 2010 6 nations. Lets take the England game poor kicking ratio but was instrumental in at least 2 tries.

Also the term confidence player is stupid. Every player plays better when they are high on confidence. If anything was based on confidence it was his kicking his general play was still brilliant.

I'm saying how he's performed in the pressure games since 16 not that he's never choked. Why I say 16 is the fact that in either the semi or the final itself in the Leinster Senior Cup (which is a pretty big deal) he came of the bench to score the winning drop goal.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Sexton is easily a more valuable player and people who say he isn't don't understand rugby.

Stop the fundamentalism. I voted for Sexton, but what you're saying is just nonsense. The results of the poll, the comments here and many other facts make it obvious that the choice is, precisely, not obvious. Let's try to give rugby arguments and not say "I'm right because I'm right".

 

[King_D'Arcy]

This argument is like saying "who's better; Dan Carter or Morne Steyn?"


Sexton is the Dan Carter equivalent in this argument

 

[antipodean]

Sexton is a donkey.

That's not a glowing report on Trinh-Duc either.