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Scottish independence referendum

Will Scotland vote for independence? (Not personal opinion on if they should)

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 19.2%

  • No

    Votes: 16 61.5%

  • Don't know

    Votes: 5 19.2%
  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .
Feicarsinn said:
A few decades ago. It was still the EC then. A lot has changed in terms of EU law in that time.

Compare Ireland before and after membership to the EU. Europe pretty much dragged us out of the third world. Great organization altogether.
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What dragged Ireland out of the mire was the wonderful ambition and intelligence generated by your schooling system that saw the advantages of using the system for its benefit in terms of employment in Brussels (Irish are by far the biggest proportion of employees against population), investment in roads, infrastructure and other subsidies PLUS the tax benefits that brought the computer industry to Ireland together with major global businesses to the great chagrin of other EU members.

This is applause to the Irish people and its Government and no way by way of criticism of what you have achieved.............BUT someone like Germany, France and the UK has had to pay for this and the benefits to the infrastructure and economies of Ireland, Spain, Italy and the new eastern Bloc countries.

You may not like him but Jeremy Clarkson was right in saying "why should I pay the tolls on the French motorways when I have already paid for them by my taxes and payments to the EU?"!!!!

Ireland is no doubt a winner and they have made the most of it but that does not mean it is the best thing since sliced bread for everyone.....it is, in fact, ruining France by supporting an unsupportable economic model!!!
 
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If they aren't going to accept any part of the debt then surely Britian would try to stop them from entering the EU. Also just saying they will have the pound is just a stupid policy, well there isn't really one. Scotland think they will make alot of money out of grants for land, but English people actually own large parts of it. If i was Scottish I wouldn't let this national pride thing blur my vision.
Also who else gets really ****** off when famous Scottish people say how they must have independence and how it will be great for Scotland. Like Sean Connery, who lives in America and contributes **** all to scotlland, doesn't pay Scottish tax, yet says how proud he is to be Scottish.
 
Tony Manx said:
What dragged Ireland out of the mire was the wonderful ambition and intelligence generated by your schooling system that saw the advantages of using the system for its benefit in terms of employment in Brussels (Irish are by far the biggest proportion of employees against population), investment in roads, infrastructure and other subsidies PLUS the tax benefits that brought the computer industry to Ireland together with major global businesses to the great chagrin of other EU members.

This is applause to the Irish people and its Government and no way by way of criticism of what you have achieved.............BUT someone like Germany, France and the UK has had to pay for this and the benefits to the infrastructure and economies of Ireland, Spain, Italy and the new eastern Bloc countries.

You may not like him but Jeremy Clarkson was right in saying "why should I pay the tolls on the French motorways when I have already paid for them by my taxes and payments to the EU?"!!!!

Ireland is no doubt a winner and they have made the most of it but that does not mean it is the best thing since sliced bread for everyone.....it is, in fact, ruining France by supporting an unsupportable economic model!!!
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This! Spain, Portugal, Greece and Ireland are simply sponges of German, French and British taxes and that was fine until 2008 when it became obvious these counties could not support themselves.

The fact is the 4 countries mentioned have lost nearly all their economic independence when they signed up for the marc sorry euro and if Scotland decided to go that way they would simply be swapping London for Brussels.
 
Peat said:
Wasn't that the case during the Franco era?
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Franco died in 1975. It's been almost 40 years now. His dictatorship was endured and enjoyed (not everything was bad; economy good, personal liberties bad) by every spaniard. Regions were getting more power ever since.

Even under his thumb, once the Axis lost WWII, books were published, songs were broadcasted, LPs sold and plays performed on stage. All in catalan.

It's funny, because under a dictatorship, catalan culture was thriving whereas in french Catalonia, a democracy, it wasn't :D

Peat said:
p.s. No country is truly independent these days; the web of international laws and obligations subsumes us all. The SNP position is that Scottish independence frees Scotland from one of those strands and allows them to pick the position in that web that suits them best (i.e. definitely staying in the EU when there is a growing exit movement in England). Talk of swapping a master in Westminster for a master in Brussels is, imo, a strawman.
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I know Scotland would be free from London (and viceversa), but as UK is pushing towards loosening the EU chain, it also would be a voluntary act of self repression.

I would understand nonetheless, that Scotland would want to follow other paths like Canada or Australia or given that we're in Europe, Norway or Switzerland
 
PS the vote here has caught everyone's attention 26 votes and there are some 54 member logged on and 5 times more than that by way of casual viewers!!!!!!
 
Tallshort said:
This! Spain, Portugal, Greece and Ireland are simply sponges of German, French and British taxes and that was fine until 2008 when it became obvious these counties could not support themselves.

The fact is the 4 countries mentioned have lost nearly all their economic independence when they signed up for the marc sorry euro and if Scotland decided to go that way they would simply be swapping London for Brussels.
Click to expand...


Exactly. As Spain signed up, our countryside and factories of heavy industry, were ripped off. You can't sow or raise cattle as your will tells you. France and Italy asked for limiting our olives, cows, vineyards, etc and Germany for our car brands. Our socialist goverment agreed with every term, happy to get that easy money that comes from your taxes.
 
Da Grappla said:
Exactly. As Spain signed up, our countryside and factories of heavy industry, were ripped off. You can't sow or raise cattle as your will tells you. France and Italy asked for limiting our olives, cows, vineyards, etc and Germany for our car brands. Our socialist goverment agreed with every term, happy to get that easy money that comes from your taxes.
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Not strictly true......the Spanish farmhands were sucked to the coasts to look after the tourists where the money was far greater and that had been going on for a long time. Ford amongst others moved their car production into Spain and this is still in evidence looking at the cars moving through Hendaye (Franco/Spanish border) by rail and train.

What did happen was a huge amount of EU money was sucked into Spain post EU membership for infrastructure and house building whereupon large number of Spanish (and others but mainly Spanish) entrepreneurs fooled their banks into lending vast amounts of monies to fund an enormous house, airport and golf course building splurge that was totally unsustainable......

We used to travel down through France via Valladolid, Salamanca and Caceres and thought the national emblem of Spain was the Crane....and that is not the bird!!

As you will appreciate, these towns are nowhere near the coast yet, five or more years later the cranes are still there and the flats unoccupied by anything other than squatters....mainly disillusioned farmhands that have returned home from the coast to find their farm jobs taken by immigrants!!!!

The problem in Spain was not just the EU, and do not deny the EU did not help, but greed of a few that affected many including many Northern Europeans who were stupid enough to mortgage their homes to raise money to buy homes in Spain!!
 
Da Grappla said:
Exactly. As Spain signed up, our countryside and factories of heavy industry, were ripped off. You can't sow or raise cattle as your will tells you. France and Italy asked for limiting our olives, cows, vineyards, etc and Germany for our car brands. Our socialist goverment agreed with every term, happy to get that easy money that comes from your taxes.
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And you nicked all our fish!
 
I would like to thank Draggs for giving me the opportunity to avoid adding to the Daily Malevolent's click count.
 
A lot of people putting far too much value on the economic debate involved which is why the no vote will win. Those who vote yes should vote yes because they want their nationality to be Scottish and they want their nation to be led from Edinburgh. Currently there isn't a single English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish person on the planet, the Scottish yes vote campaign want to change that for Scottish people but economics has played too big a role in this referendum which as I said will lead to a no vote. It should have been a social debate primarily, which in my view it has not been and that's down to the No vote campaign being cleverer than their counterpart.
 
cmac95 said:
A lot of people putting far too much value on the economic debate involved which is why the no vote will win. Those who vote yes should vote yes because they want their nationality to be Scottish and they want their nation to be led from Edinburgh. Currently there isn't a single English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish person on the planet, the Scottish yes vote campaign want to change that for Scottish people but economics has played too big a role in this referendum which as I said will lead to a no vote. It should have been a social debate primarily, which in my view it has not been and that's down to the No vote campaign being cleverer than their counterpart.
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To be fair, economy has an awful lot to do with the standard of living a country can expect to endure. It's not surprising it's the 'No' vote's campaign focus, because it's the best argument they have and one that the 'Yes' campaign hasn't really provided any meaningful answers.
 
TRF_nickdnz said:
To be fair, economy has an awful lot to do with the standard of living a country can expect to endure. It's not surprising it's the 'No' vote's campaign focus, because it's the best argument they have and one that the 'Yes' campaign hasn't really provided any meaningful answers.
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I know that but what I was trying to say is if a nation as a whole wanted independence economics wouldn't matter. If you look at Ireland when we won our independence we were rewarded with no economic improvement for 30 or so years, albeit mainly due to church state that was formed, it was about identity, pride and disassociating ourselves with the empire that had taken our country hundreds of years previously. It all sounds abut poetic I know but I feel as if the Catalonians want for independence is more about identity than the Scots.
 

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