Scotland vs Wales - 09/03/2013

[dullonien]

dullonien :
right on buddy, I'm not questioning all that...but I will not stand for Welsh fans all of a sudden pretending like nothing happened, like a certain MONUMENTAL streak didn't just end, and whistle it off...:whistle3:
Be men fellas, when things are **** they're ****, when things are a bit better they're only A BIT better...Wales, I MUST insist, look like a tremendous pile of steaming you know what on attack, ESPECIALLY given who they have on the team. They just, I repeat, throw themselves at the opponents, where the hell are the nice wide passes, the interior to exterior distribution etc...the quick scrum half releases...
I hope Wales come right back to conquer their attack once again as it's just incredible they've gone from unanimously voted and achieved Grand Slam to nothingness complete in such a short period of time. Now they're winning again, it's good, but as a welshman I would have to be a lot, lot more critical of my own side is aaaaaaall I'm saying.

I'm not sure who you are trying to convince, I'm pretty sure every single Welsh supporter is critical of our attacking play over the past year, if not for most of Gatlands (& Howleys) tenure. However, after being on a losing streak of 8 games, you have got to play to your strengths, and atm our strengths are our forwards and our defence. We are still in with a good shout of winning the championship next week, if someone had offered me this before the tournament began I would have bitten their hand off!

Yes I want to see our attacking game developed, I have for the previous 5 years, but that's not going to happen between now and next week. For the moment I will be content with taking our chances when they appear, and hoping that takes us to our fourth championship in 8 years. Then we can set about tinkering with the side and developing an attacking game to go with our strong forwards and defensive game. :good:

 

[Big Ewis]

right yeh, Wales ought to be realistic and consistent with what's worked so far into this thing...
but as I've said, Wales is winning, good.

But for the future, they absolutely cannot settle for that, and Wales fans ought to be weary of Wales' ability. Good defense and a scrum will take you so far in the 6N, won't be enough to win big unless you run it to a high, high level, like England 2003.
But Wales have more than that in store, and for their sake (and...I'll admit....my own personal selfish viewing pleasure !) they MUST tap into that potential and replenish their game. Wales isn't a fkn 10-man team ffs, you know what I mean ?!
What with all that talent back there, a unique no.9 like Phillips.....it's such a shame, really such a shame what's happened to Wales. They've had this bad streak, and are now forced to make sure they win games, in the most minimalistic way. They've lost their confidence (as French players have said themselves, as you're on a streak, you lose confidence) and won't risk the wide game anymore...they play such a small, conservative game now.

Anyways, good luck with that fellas. And please, pleaaaaaase beat England. Their endless yapping over victory is like no natural cataclysm even can conjure...the small, minimalist game they've played this tournament and they get the GS....ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww......just, ewwwww. Sorry, it's just...I can't.... *runs away crying up the stairs into his room*

 

[Ospreylian]

What with all that talent back there, a unique no.9 like Phillips.....it's such a shame, really such a shame what's happened to Wales. They've had this bad streak, and are now forced to make sure they win games, in the most minimalistic way. They've lost their confidence (as French players have said themselves, as you're on a streak, you lose confidence) and won't risk the wide game anymore...they play such a small, conservative game now.

Anyways, good luck with that fellas. And please, pleaaaaaase beat England. Their endless yapping over victory is like no natural cataclysm even can conjure...the small, minimalist game they've played this tournament and they get the GS....ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww......just, ewwwww. Sorry, it's just...I can't.... *runs away crying up the stairs into his room*

I wouldn't say they have lost their confidence. If anything they are growing in confidence, and quite rapidly. Yes, maybe they could throw the ball wide a little more and be more creative, but with the players that are starting at the moment that just isn't going to happen, simple as. What Wales ARE doing well is working on a great defensive platform and playing to their current strengths, which is through the forwards The forwards really are the ones winning the matches for Wales at the moment, and there is far more competition for places in the forwards than backs - more depth. That's probably why they are thriving more than the backs.

 

[Thingimubob]

right yeh, Wales ought to be realistic and consistent with what's worked so far into this thing...
but as I've said, Wales is winning, good.

But for the future, they absolutely cannot settle for that, and Wales fans ought to be weary of Wales' ability. Good defense and a scrum will take you so far in the 6N, won't be enough to win big unless you run it to a high, high level, like England 2003.
But Wales have more than that in store, and for their sake (and...I'll admit....my own personal selfish viewing pleasure !) they MUST tap into that potential and replenish their game. Wales isn't a fkn 10-man team ffs, you know what I mean ?!
What with all that talent back there, a unique no.9 like Phillips.....it's such a shame, really such a shame what's happened to Wales. They've had this bad streak, and are now forced to make sure they win games, in the most minimalistic way. They've lost their confidence (as French players have said themselves, as you're on a streak, you lose confidence) and won't risk the wide game anymore...they play such a small, conservative game now.

Anyways, good luck with that fellas. And please, pleaaaaaase beat England. Their endless yapping over victory is like no natural cataclysm even can conjure...the small, minimalist game they've played this tournament and they get the GS....ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww......just, ewwwww. Sorry, it's just...I can't.... *runs away crying up the stairs into his room*

Not completely convinced that Wales are currently low on confidence, if anything I think winning those 3 away games has probably won all that confidence back! Right now we're playing with a new 10 who has a different style of play to our old one, and (as others have said here) our players with arguably the most flair are out injured/coming back from injury. I'm not convinced by our centre partnership as for me they shouldnt be on the field at the same time, even if they are very solid defensively. I still stand by that Ashley Beck at 12 and Eli Wales replacing one of Cuthbert or North would go a long way to bringing our back play back to life. Even just giving Hook a crack at 12 would be a pretty decent stopgap mesure!

 

[Ospreylian]

Not completely convinced that Wales are currently low on confidence, if anything I think winning those 3 away games has probably won all that confidence back! Right now we're playing with a new 10 who has a different style of play to our old one, and (as others have said here) our players with arguably the most flair are out injured/coming back from injury. I'm not convinced by our centre partnership as for me they shouldnt be on the field at the same time, even if they are very solid defensively. I still stand by that Ashley Beck at 12 and Eli Wales replacing one of Cuthbert or North would go a long way to bringing our back play back to life. Even just giving Hook a crack at 12 would be a pretty decent stopgap mesure!

I love how you call him Eli Wales He is so good he IS Wales.

 

[Draggs]

I love how you call him Eli Wales He is so good he IS Wales.

Outstanding, unofficial nickname henceforth.

 

[g6mcg]

I'm sure Johnson knows a damn sight more about rugby than I do, but it's curious that despite having a fairly talented back three, we don't seem to have much intention of using them.

 

[Thingimubob]

I have some horrific hangover - flu hybrid so leave me be that said Eli Wales is a pretty epic nickname...

 

[Dougydeluxe]

Way to much kicking from Scotland... just far to much.

Swearing at the Computer as I watched them keep giving it away.

 

[psychic duck]

right yeh, Wales ought to be realistic and consistent with what's worked so far into this thing...
but as I've said, Wales is winning, good.

But for the future, they absolutely cannot settle for that, and Wales fans ought to be weary of Wales' ability. Good defense and a scrum will take you so far in the 6N, won't be enough to win big unless you run it to a high, high level, like England 2003.
But Wales have more than that in store, and for their sake (and...I'll admit....my own personal selfish viewing pleasure !) they MUST tap into that potential and replenish their game. Wales isn't a fkn 10-man team ffs, you know what I mean ?!
What with all that talent back there, a unique no.9 like Phillips.....it's such a shame, really such a shame what's happened to Wales. They've had this bad streak, and are now forced to make sure they win games, in the most minimalistic way. They've lost their confidence (as French players have said themselves, as you're on a streak, you lose confidence) and won't risk the wide game anymore...they play such a small, conservative game now.

To be fair. Wales' Grand Slam was mostly won by the probably the best collective set of forwards we've ever had in the professional era. Jenkins, Adam Jones, A-W Jones, Evans, Lydiate/Ryan Jones, Warburton/Tipuric, Faletau. All playing very well at the same time won the Grand Slam. Only Quinnell from the forwards of the previous decade or so could have got in that pack.

The backs even during the Grand Slam and RWC were still just simply big guys (Halfpenny the exception), none of whom can pass, and who's one tactic is to run straight. All the backs in general were overrated this time last year. The reason we don't play the wide game is because we can't. The wingers don't get opportunities because the centres don't/won't/can't pass. This is what happens when we try and play wide ...

North and Cuthbert both can score plenty of tries. But don't get good ball. It would be the same if Eli Walker were to play as well, it wouldn't make a difference. What would make a difference is somebody who can pass and create space for his fellow backs ...

 

[dullonien]

Anyone have any idea what North was saying to Warburton at the end of the game? Probably congratulating how well he played, but it was very animated and was quite funny tbh.

 

[Big Ewis]

I agree with psychic. They were overrated at the time in that they still weren't exactly NZ-type backs, but they still got the job done. They scored tries, were very intense and kept their composure for the conclusions. Good gifs right there...I'd forgotten about that Halfpenny WIDE FKNG OPEN in the corner left...horrible to watch.

But what I mean by "all that potential in the backs", you've covered partially: they're big and strong. Wales have size. Just a guy like Phillips at 9, North at the wing...Cuthbert, J.Roberts.....so much size and strength.....of course HPenny...
They may not go wide and be the flamboyant pretty boys of the rugby field, but they can be incisive and had this ability to impose their rhythm on the game.

And I'd like to extend, again, my disappointment in the Wales team not doing anything more than run into the defense thoughtlessly and ruck....and ruck...and ruck....but yes I know, some injuries and winning is more important than looking pretty and yadi yada...I know.

 

[tompaton]

Anyone have any idea what North was saying to Warburton at the end of the game? Probably congratulating how well he played, but it was very animated and was quite funny tbh.

Loved that moment. Think he was talking about the turnover he made on the try line to officially seal the match. Great camaraderie!

 

[Jbobo]

I agree with psychic. They were overrated at the time in that they still weren't exactly NZ-type backs, but they still got the job done. They scored tries, were very intense and kept their composure for the conclusions. Good gifs right there...I'd forgotten about that Halfpenny WIDE FKNG OPEN in the corner left...horrible to watch.

But what I mean by "all that potential in the backs", you've covered partially: they're big and strong. Wales have size. Just a guy like Phillips at 9, North at the wing...Cuthbert, J.Roberts.....so much size and strength.....of course HPenny...
They may not go wide and be the flamboyant pretty boys of the rugby field, but they can be incisive and had this ability to impose their rhythm on the game.

And I'd like to extend, again, my disappointment in the Wales team not doing anything more than run into the defense thoughtlessly and ruck....and ruck...and ruck....but yes I know, some injuries and winning is more important than looking pretty and yadi yada...I know.

I think you're forgetting the world cup, then pretty much the same set of backs produced some of the best running rugby of the tournament. We also scored some of the best tries during the 2012 Grandslam, including North's fantastic offload to JD against Ireland.

I appreciate that you haven't enjoyed the style of play which Wales has adopted throughout the six nations (as you keep reminding us), but it has been necessary considering our poor form in the run up and the terrible conditions which we have played in. You say Wales haven't done 'anything more than run into the defense thoughtlessly and ruck....and ruck...and ruck', but it can hardly be described as Thoughtless. France have had very similar tactics, but have just executed them far less effectively. Wales have adapted their game better than France has and that is why we have won all but one of our games and France has lost all but one of theirs. Wales are so much more than just big battering rams, and that is obvious to most people. In your comments on the France-Ireland thread you hang onto the notion that France play 'magical' rugby but i believe that this hasn't been true for a number of years. It sounds like you are sore about the fact that France are under-performing spectacularly to me.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ oh I totally disagree with like 95% of the post !...but....okay.

 

[Jbobo]

And to be honest, i disagree with around 95% of all ​your posts.

 

[Big Ewis]

"all my posts" or just "all my posts" ? There's a big difference.

 

[Jbobo]

Definitely all ​your posts. Just in case you missed the emphasis that my comments were aimed at your views as a whole, not just the ones quoted above.

 

[psychic duck]

I think you're forgetting the world cup, then pretty much the same set of backs produced some of the best running rugby of the tournament. We also scored some of the best tries during the 2012 Grandslam, including North's fantastic offload to JD against Ireland.

I appreciate that you haven't enjoyed the style of play which Wales has adopted throughout the six nations (as you keep reminding us), but it has been necessary considering our poor form in the run up and the terrible conditions which we have played in. You say Wales haven't done 'anything more than run into the defense thoughtlessly and ruck....and ruck...and ruck', but it can hardly be described as Thoughtless. France have had very similar tactics, but have just executed them far less effectively. Wales have adapted their game better than France has and that is why we have won all but one of our games and France has lost all but one of theirs. Wales are so much more than just big battering rams, and that is obvious to most people. In your comments on the France-Ireland thread you hang onto the notion that France play 'magical' rugby but i believe that this hasn't been true for a number of years. It sounds like you are sore about the fact that France are under-performing spectacularly to me.

They really aren't. That is exactly what they are, just big battering rams.

Jamie Roberts, Jonathan Davies, Alex Cuthbert and George North have done nothing but run straight all tournament or all last tournament. There's no sidestep of Shane Williams or passing and handling of Henson in this side unlike the 2005 and 2008 sides.

The current Welsh tactic is just bosh bosh and more bosh. It's so predictable. It worked against Ireland last year, but it was found out by other teams. And even this year, against Ireland it was the brain and skill of Sexton, O'Driscoll and Zebo that won the day over the bosh of Welsh backs. This Welsh tactic is not going to trouble the big three nations, the wins in the 6 Nations are just due to the other teams problems of their own. I'd like to know what exactly you've seen of Wales this season that has had a touch of flair from the backs? You sound like somebody who also fell into the hype that Scarlets had a magical backline that was anything special as well.

France as you say, under PSA this tournament, have looked equally predictable in tactics. And traditional French flair has been very rare and dying for over a decade now. As for Italy and Scotland, both those wins were built around the strong performance of the pack. The backs hardly offered that much inventive in those matches. And in 2012, it was the immense performance of the Welsh pack that got the wins. The backs were very overrated on the back of that, and were found out to an extent with their predictability in June and November when there were several injuries to the likes of Adam Jones, AWJ, Evans and Lydiate in the pack, and Gethin was on miserable form. It was the pack that won the Grand Slam.

Also you note the 2011 World Cup. Back then North was looking very exciting and had a sidestep and flair, since then he has been turning into being as predictable as the rest of the backline. We've also lost Shane since then. And to be honest, the running rugby by Wales in that tournament wasn't that incredible anyway. Most of it was against Namibia and Fiji, and Ireland in 2011/2012 was thanks to them for whatever reason being ill equipped to deal with the predictable backline. Even they found us out in 2013.

 

[dullonien]

So, Ryan Jones is out with a broken shoulder.

Warburton and Tipuric to start surely. Who will be on the bench? Shingler?