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Sam Burgess U Turn

Tony Manx said:
There was a double page spread but that was the gist of that section!

You get access to their site for up to about 10'click throughs per month free? Or is that the DT?
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DT you get 20 articles free per month, but just clear your cookies when you reach your 20 article limit and you can start reading the telegraph again with a new 20 article limit.
 
The_Blindside said:
DT you get 20 articles free per month, but just clear your cookies when you reach your 20 article limit and you can start reading the telegraph again with a new 20 article limit.
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Also that limit is not applied if you use an ITouch!!

Reference Burgess, "It weren't me Guv"!!

Interesting that his contract was only for another 18 months and it reads he had no intention to renew even if he had cracked the selection as a 6!
 
TRF_Peat said:
Burgess had a lot less opposition for a place than SBW did. I mean, ignoring Burgess for a moment, look at the other centres in the squad and work out what the England coaching team collectively thought of the guys they left out. People talk about being indulged and Lancaster being starstruck and the rest of it and there's an element of it there fair enough... but also an element of a man completely desperate to find something and therefore willing to gamble on anything. After all, arguably Lancaster's biggest mistake of the WC was taking him off, not taking him at all...

Anyway, Burgess has told his side of the story, all over the web, I'll let someone else find the story but interesting highlights are that a) he didn't want to be in a sport with that much backbiting, or so he says (media stuff) b) he thought it would take him 18 months to make it as a blindside - no offence mate, but if you hadn't worked out it would take 2-3 years to really hit your peak, you're not that bright...
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And how would we have faired if we had played a backline of Ford, Burrell and Slade? Taking him and selecting that backline was the mistake.
 
Tallshort said:
And how would we have faired if we had played a backline of Ford, Burrell and Slade? Taking him and selecting that backline was the mistake.
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No one knows. Maybe they'd have been ripped to bits defensively before then, maybe they'd have won the game. Both possibilities. But then he could have taken Burrell instead of Barritt anyway.
 
TRF_Peat said:
No one knows. Maybe they'd have been ripped to bits defensively before then, maybe they'd have won the game. Both possibilities. But then he could have taken Burrell instead of Barritt anyway.
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To me Farrell, Burgess and Barritt was about the worst 3/4 line I have seen in white since the days of Jamie Noon and the only thing that suprised me at the time was Wales only won by 3 points but after watching Wales toil against the Aussies its obvious the team had/has no attacking flair so if we had made a more ambitious selection we would have won that game by a decent margin as we did in Cardiff in Feb.

Yes we were winning when we took Burgess off but had Wales really tried to expose that very limited back line it could have ended in carnage.
 
austingtir said:
SBW to his credit took a longer road and basically did his time so to speak at a lower level of union before he came back to NZ and EARNT his way into the AB's.....
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Yup, for the record


► Two seasons (2008/09 & 2009/10) with Toulon... 33 matches in the Top 14 & Heineken Cup
► Half a season (2010) with Belfast... 6 matches in the CRFU Seniors Club Rugby
► Half a season with Canterbury... 6 matches in the ITM Cup
► Then he was selected for the 2010 EOYT where he played three matches
► Full Season (2011) the Crusaders... 15 matches in Super Rugby
► Then he was selected in the 2011 Tri-nations squad where he played in four matches

After all that... he had 12 lower level matches, 48 elite level matches and 7 tests under his belt before being selected for RWC 2011.

NOTE: By way of comparison, NMS had 35 lower level (ITM Cup) matches, only 15 Elite (SR) matches, and just 2 tests under his belt before he was selected for RWC 2015!!. When He played against South Africa in the semi final, it was his first test against them!!
 
He just couldn't cope with union. All the rules and everything. He also received pressure after the world cup. In my opinion league is more of a easier sport, therefore he chose league.
 
It was exactly what I said ....

England have way too much young talent coming through in the back row and he didn't want to fight for it .

Itoje is already better than Burgess by some margin and he is 7 years his junior .....
 
Can we not turn this into another NZ willy waggling thread, everyone is well aware of SBWs story - hell, he learnt the game in the NH.
austingtir said:
When they took him from playing at 6 for bath or whatever and then basically straight into the england squad and hello he's now a center or 12 or whatever. I just laughed. Not only is he not the all round athlete SBW is but they give him no time whatsoever to transition to a totally different (and totally unknown to Burgess) position in rugby union.
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Pretty sure he played a fair bit more in the centres than the backrow at Bath. Also played there for England Saxons.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34772560

"I want to spend the rest of my career playing the game that's in my heart," said Burgess, who played 21 games for Bath as a blind-side flanker after switching codes last year.

"What makes me love [rugby league] is the physical battle of it; I never found myself reaching that point [in union].

"My heart just isn't in [rugby union], and if my heart's not in it then [Bath and England] won't get the best performances from me."
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He's confirmed his heart was no longer in it and he preferred to return to his original love of League. Can't blame him really, rather end it now then continue fooling no-one. I think he would have left anyway regardless of whether he was picked for the RWC. If a player doesn't enjoy Union, then they will never improve in it.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Can we not turn this into another NZ willy waggling thread, everyone is well aware of SBWs story -
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Oh FFS Olly that is not what it is about. There is no "SBW is better than Burgess" thing going on here!

The discussion is about how Burgess' transition from League to Union was totally mismanaged by England (and to a certain extent Bath) and how he is being blamed in some quarters for England's woes at the RWC. I could have picked any number of comparison examples of how it was done a lot better by other unions; Brad Thorn, Wendell Sailor, Israel Folau, Mat Rogers, Lote Tuqiri. I just picked the SBW example because it was recent, high profile and I knew it better than the others.
 
smartcooky said:
Oh FFS Olly that is not what it is about. There is no "SBW is better than Burgess" thing going on here!

The discussion is about how Burgess' transition from League to Union was totally mismanaged by England (and to a certain extent Bath) and how he is being blamed in some quarters for England's woes at the RWC. I could have picked any number of comparison examples of how it was done a lot better by other unions; Brad Thorn, Wendell Sailor, Israel Folau, Mat Rogers, Lote Tuqiri. I just picked the SBW example because it was recent, high profile and I knew it better than the others.
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FWIW that's how I read it - as making the point that it took SBW a decent length of time to to international level, where as Burgess was just slung in there on a wing and a prayer with club and country somewhat at loggerheads about his role.
 
Given the way rugby union is being played now and is evolving (if you can call it that), if he'd stayed Burgess would have found himself playing rugby league again anyway before long!
 
Not that I have anything new to add - but I called this when he was signed.

The reality is he signed 6 months out from a RWC, with that tournament being his big carrot.

People are saying the RFU mismanaged the situation - and they are right in that they led him to believe he would be ready to play in a RWC after 6 months - but I doubt if he didn't make the RWC squad he'd still be sticking around either. As it was, it seems he hasn't especially enjoyed his time in union. His big 'carrot' of a RWC ended up in England's worst ever tournament at home, uncertainty whether he was a forward or a back, him losing money to poor market speculating, and pretty constant media circus surrounding whether he should/shouldn't be in the squad. If he wasn't selected for England's squad he'd likely be in a similar situation of feelling under-valued.

In reality I think he wanted to play in a RWC - not necessarily be a rugby union player.

Sonny Bill Williams is probably a bit the same. As much as his popularity is on the up - he has definetely picked his times to be a rugby union player in New Zealand. 2010-2012 - enough time to make a bid at rugby union in NZ to make the 2011 RWC squad, while also giving him time to play in Japan and still make the NRL season. 2014-2016 - enough time to be included on the EOYT and make another bid for the RWC, and 2016 allows him access to the Olympics. He may stick around for 2017 with a Lions tour to go.

The point I'm making (and not taking anything away from him) - is that his career ambitions seem to be very 'reward oriented' - rather than based on developing with one team and being the best he could possibly be at that one thing.

For Sam Burgess, he is a legend in rugby league. Whatever people think of his 'potential' in union - I think they are naieve to think a return to being the pinnacle wouldn't have always been more alluring. Nothing about this at all has surprised me.
 
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TRF_Olyy said:
Can we not turn this into another NZ willy waggling thread, everyone is well aware of SBWs story - hell, he learnt the game in the NH.


Pretty sure he played a fair bit more in the centres than the backrow at Bath. Also played there for England Saxons.
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Well when England does a **** poor job of copying NZ in nearly every way (except winning) then we have a talking point dont we?

And the only reasons SBW went to toulon was Tana and the $$$$ (the lower tier rugby to start out also helped).
 
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TommiG88 said:
I thought G. Ford came up through the Leicester academy?
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Yuo're right.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know if this helps soothe tempers, but Bath ahve more than filled Burgess' shoes in the back row by signing David Denton from Edinburgh.
 

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