Sam Warburton's Tip Tackle in RWC Semi Final

[Darwin]

so if that were the case, quade cooper could have tip tackled mccaw into a fence, stomped on his head and killed him once and for all last sunday, cooper would have been red carded and then replaced after 10 minutes by barnes? *sounds fair to me*

That scenario makes no sense..... we all know Quade Cooper can't tackle

 

[Dizzy]

Taking the memo to referees into consideration, absolutely the right call. When you lift a player up you are solely responsible for putting him back down safely. Warburton failed to do that, and was rightly sent off. Had he not let go of him, and fallen to the ground with him, he probably could have gotten only a yellow, or perhaps no cards at all and just a penalty. The moment he let go, he put himself at the mercy of Rolland's interpretation.

I, for one, am happy to see that tip tackles are trying to be eradicated from our sport. They have no place in rugby, and we don't need them. That said, I do feel somewhat sorry for Warburton, as he could feel like the IRB is making an example of him. However, he's not the first to be sent off for a tip tackle in the past two years.

As a guy who thrives on big tackles and that's one of my main goals whenever I take the field, To make big hits. And on the odd occasion when I do lift a player it's unintentional. It's a combo of adrenaline, a good leg drive and momentum. And it's not as easy to put someone down as you think it is when there is a collision.

I lean more to the side where blatant shoulder charges should be officiated strictly rather than pick up tackles.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

That scenario makes no sense..... we all know Quade Cooper can't tackle

hahahahahah touche`

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

As a guy who thrives on big tackles and that's one of my main goals whenever I take the field, To make big hits. And on the odd occasion when I do lift a player it's unintentional. It's a combo of adrenaline, a good leg drive and momentum. And it's not as easy to put someone down as you think it is when there is a collision.

I lean more to the side where blatant shoulder charges should be officiated strictly rather than pick up tackles.

LOL, you're sig kinda implies you're not too fussed over tip/spear tackles.

But I feel Rolland made the correct decision under very tough circumstances and showed a lot of guts in doing so and I respect him for it. Spear tackles, shoulder charges, high tackles and taking players around the neck in mauls and in clearing rucks are all dangerous. I'd give only yellow to shoulder charges and high tackles but feel it needs to be addressed. Rather than blame Rolland for making the correct call as sanctioned by the rules, take the stick to the other refs who havn't been consistant in implementing it. At the end of the day that's all you want from a ref and from refs as a group; consistency. That goes for all illegal play. The rules are there, just man up and implement them and GET FIT ffs so that you don't lag behind all the time, refs!

 

[Muzzy]

interesting comparison

 

[Dizzy]

LOL, you're sig kinda implies you're not too fussed over tip/spear tackles.

Lol, I'm really not to be honest, because I grew up playing rugby when you were allowed to do it and there was nothing wrong with it back then. Now, it seems anything you do that can cause a darn bruise these days get's you a penalty.

But I feel Rolland made the correct decision under very tough circumstances and showed a lot of guts in doing so and I respect him for it. Spear tackles, shoulder charges, high tackles and taking players around the neck in mauls and in clearing rucks are all dangerous. I'd give only yellow to shoulder charges and high tackles but feel it needs to be addressed. Rather than blame Rolland for making the correct call as sanctioned by the rules, take the stick to the other refs who havn't been consistant in implementing it. At the end of the day that's all you want from a ref and from refs as a group; consistency. That goes for all illegal play. The rules are there, just man up and implement them and GET FIT ffs so that you don't lag behind all the time, refs!

Have to completely 100% agree with you!!

 

[stevemagoo]

if that's a RED card then why did all the other "tip tackles" in the tournament only get Yellow cards? Most were as bad and in one or two cases worse than this one.

The reality is it ruined the game, it was not a fair contest from then on and without a doubt it changed the result of the game. This is a professional sport with a public that pay big money to see the game and they had that taken away from them.

If this is a red card then the rules should be changed for red cards so the player is punished but the spectacle isn't ruined. An idea would be to allow a bench player to come on and replace the Red carded player after 10min. The Carded player can't enter the game and the team then only have 21 players to work with but at least the contest isn't ruined and each team can continue with 15 players on the field after 10min being a man down. Then the player would be stood down for a period of time.

A system like that would be fair without ruining the contest.

I presume you're joking? A system like that would lead to people sacrificing themselves to do-over the other teams strong players! Take the red card, hospitalise their best player, after 10 mins you're back to 15 men and the opposition are the weaker side for it?

Bottom line - It was a red card - The inconsistency everyone speaks of is between refs. The other tackles that have been mentioned that were 'worse' etc... should have been reds too. A close friend of mine is in a wheelchair for the rest of his life for one of these 'tackles' so they should be chopped from the game in it's entirety. It's a joke that people are trying to say that dropping someone on their neck is somehow reasonable? Is it going to take one of the bigger names in rugby to be paralyzed for everyone to open their eyes? Malicious is a word that has been bandied about a lot as in: ' It wasn't a malicious action' etc.. Who cares if it was or not? accidents are accidents and if you remove the actions that increase the percentage of these actions, then the game is safer for it. A driver distracted on their mobile phone kills a passer-by - Malicious? no....preventable with laws? yes.

Also - the game was ruined as a spectacle? i honestly don't think so...if Wales hadn't left 11 points on the pitch it would have been heralded as one of the best semis ever! 14 man team after 19 mins win WC semi?

 

[ranger]

One thing i think should be changed is the instances where referees see and infringement and want to give out a yellow but they can't identify which player it was, so no one gets carded. Thats just silly, its a team penalty but it isnt awarded because they can't find which individual to punish.
They should either be able to use the video ref to find the culprit or the team captain should have to nominate a player to drop for 10

 

[PT8475]

Seems most people here support the Red Card, then.

 

[j'nuh]

I don't think Rolland was wrong in giving a red and was certainly entitled to, but I think there was plenty of scope to work backwards to a yellow given the context and in that situation, that's what I'd have gone for.

 

[RedCard]

The working backward from red option never seems to be mentioned though. Could Rolland have given a yellow if he deemed right under the IRB memo?

The biggest issue I think most had was the lack of consistency, not just with tip tackles but other foul play actions singled out in that memo. Picking and choosing what you are going to be strict on from the rules/memo doesn't help.

 

[smartcooky]

The working backward from red option never seems to be mentioned though. Could Rolland have given a yellow if he deemed right under the IRB memo?

No he couldn't in that tip tackle because Warburton dropped Clerc head first after tipping him over. The Spear Tackle memo is unequivocal...

[TEXTAREA]► The player is lifted and then forced or “speared†into the ground. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.

► The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player’s safety. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.[/TEXTAREA]

However, had Warburton held onto Clerc, not letting him go or spearing him, but instead perhaps continuing to rotate him so that he did not land his head/shoulders/upper torso, then Rolland would have had the option of a yellow card or even just a penalty.

[TEXTAREA]► For all other types of dangerous lifting tackles, it may be considered a penalty or yellow card is sufficient.[/TEXTAREA]

It would be up to his judgement of the circumstances of the tackle to decide whether a penalty kick or yellow card was more appropriate.

 

[dullonien]

No he couldn't in that tip tackle because Warburton dropped Clerc head first after tipping him over. The Spear Tackle memo is unequivocal...

[TEXTAREA]► The player is lifted and then forced or “speared†into the ground. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.

► The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player’s safety. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.[/TEXTAREA]

However, had Warburton held onto Clerc, not letting him go or spearing him, but instead perhaps continuing to rotate him so that he did not land his head/shoulders/upper torso, then Rolland would have had the option of a yellow card or even just a penalty.

[TEXTAREA]► For all other types of dangerous lifting tackles, it may be considered a penalty or yellow card is sufficient.[/TEXTAREA]

It would be up to his judgement of the circumstances of the tackle to decide whether a penalty kick or yellow card was more appropriate.

Out of interest cooky, it mentions 'from a height' in the memo. Any idea what would be considered an acceptable height to drop a player from without it resulting in a red-card? This isn't related to Warburton's tackle, I just feel that using such an arbitary term in the middle of such a strict memo is a little confusing. I suppose it's a judjement that has to be made my the ref, what would yours be?

 

[Larksea]

so if that were the case, quade cooper could have tip tackled mccaw into a fence, stomped on his head and killed him once and for all last sunday, cooper would have been red carded and then replaced after 10 minutes by barnes? *sounds fair to me*

well that's a stupid example but yes fair, but obviously in that case post match cooper would be banned from rugby for life and charged with Murder.

 

[Larksea]

I presume you're joking? A system like that would lead to people sacrificing themselves to do-over the other teams strong players! Take the red card, hospitalise their best player, after 10 mins you're back to 15 men and the opposition are the weaker side for it?

Bottom line - It was a red card - The inconsistency everyone speaks of is between refs. The other tackles that have been mentioned that were 'worse' etc... should have been reds too. A close friend of mine is in a wheelchair for the rest of his life for one of these 'tackles' so they should be chopped from the game in it's entirety. It's a joke that people are trying to say that dropping someone on their neck is somehow reasonable? Is it going to take one of the bigger names in rugby to be paralyzed for everyone to open their eyes? Malicious is a word that has been bandied about a lot as in: ' It wasn't a malicious action' etc.. Who cares if it was or not? accidents are accidents and if you remove the actions that increase the percentage of these actions, then the game is safer for it. A driver distracted on their mobile phone kills a passer-by - Malicious? no....preventable with laws? yes.

Also - the game was ruined as a spectacle? i honestly don't think so...if Wales hadn't left 11 points on the pitch it would have been heralded as one of the best semis ever! 14 man team after 19 mins win WC semi?

bulldust, your forgetting that as well as the card the offenders will get bans and marks on their record. Obviously in this example Sam would have missed all remaining matches in the tournament and his income from being part of those games.

if your point of view was true then every game you would see players deliberately commit red card offenses in the last few min of the game.

Being a player down for 10min is harsh enough and in close games they are usually enough to decide the result of the game.

The idea is to punish the player adequately without ruining the contest. The gap in the level of punishment between a yellow and red is too large and even with a red it depends how long the game has been going. A red card could take a player out of the game for 80min or 1 min.

 

[barthelemy]

Just a quick story about Warburton. On his way back to Wales on a plane from Auckland to Brisbane, He found himself seating with...Vincent Clerc ! seems that they had a nice chat (not too sure of the english level of clerc though ). yep Random story !

 

[William18]

He has now said that he deserve the red card so the issue should be put to bed.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

The full article:

Wales captain Sam Warburton has said that Rugby World Cup referee Alain Rolland was right to send him off in the Rugby World Cup semifinal loss to France.

Warburton said that he has seen the tackle again and said that it was "uglier" than he first thought.

Warburton was red-carded for a tip tackle on Vincent Clerc in the 18th minute, leaving his teammates short a man for more than an hour in a match they lost by only one point at Eden Park.

The Welsh camp blasted Rolland for days, claiming the dangerous tackle wasn't worthy of a red card and the Irishman acted too hastily.

The decision angered fans around the world as Tonga's Suka Hufanga was only shown a yellow card for the same offence on the same winger Clerc earlier in the match.

But Warburton, serving a three-week ban that ends this weekend, said on Thursday he can't complain about Rolland's decision.

"At the end of the day the IRB said if you lift up a player and drop him it's a red card, and that's exactly what I did," Warburton said.

"I can't complain. There was no point in appealing against it and I didn't have a leg to stand on really."

Immediately after the semifinal, Warburton believed he'd committed "a normal tackle." But on video review he'd changed his mind.

"I have seen it played back, the tackle is a lot uglier than I thought it was at the time," he said.

"When I looked at it on the replays it looked worse than I thought it was.

"I didn't intend to do anything like that and I had only had a yellow card in my career up until that point so it was a shock to get a red, but there was nothing I could do and I just had to support the boys for the rest of that match and the remaining game against Australia."

The International Rugby Board supported Rolland for upholding the law about tip tackles, but Rolland has been overlooked for refereeing any of Wales' matches in the Six Nations next year.

Warburton hopes to hold onto the captaincy in the face of the return to fitness of Matthew Rees. Rees was to lead Wales at the World Cup until he withdrew before the event with a neck injury. He returned to action for his club last weekend and said he'd like to be national skipper again.

Warburton understood Rees' ambition. Coach Warren Gatland will choose between them before Wales' last outing of the year against Australia on Dec. 3 at Millennium Stadium.

"I can understand both scenarios," Warburton said.

"If it was offered to me again I would take it, but Matthew did a great job during the Six Nations so I would understand if they want to give it back to him."

"But personally I would love to hold on to it after enjoying it at the World Cup."

http://superxv.com/news/rugby_union_news.asp?id=32722