Salary Cap Investigations

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I know Joyce came through the academy and will be discounted but a 25 year old is going to be wanting more money than a 19 year old.........

I ,mean 100% Tigers were know for that I don't doubt that.
Although Murphy did want that when he was playing, so that would've swayed his interest, which has since changed.

On the not releasing a not us statement we that is pretty irrelevant.
You don't know what deals was made behind scenes, not driving up Manu price more etc etc who knows.

But as I said you would be foolish to take what DOR/CEO's of clubs say for face value.

Also don't get the raiding point?
Our two main targets was Worcester and Falcons 2 clubs that really didn't require us to splash cash to beat at the time.

 

[Scotty]

Tony Rowe has demanded that Saracens be relegated and various clubs have said that they'll boycott their games with Saracens if they appeal the punishment.

I'm hoping that such strong words from Rowe mean that we're safely under the cap (which I believe we are).

And if we did that thats the outcome? Does it go down as a sarries win or nil all draw? Because thats win win for sarries if they get the points because they appeal.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

And if we did that thats the outcome? Does it go down as a sarries win or nil all draw? Because thats win win for sarries if they get the points because they appeal.

Yeah that part confused me too. Maybe they mean that they'll boycott their games at Allianz Park so that Saracens don't get any revenue from ticket sales? Or moreso putting pressure on Premiership Rugby so that they don't miss out on revenue from tickets or television.

 

[Which Tyler]

Tony Rowe has demanded that Saracens be relegated and various clubs have said that they'll boycott their games with Saracens if they appeal the punishment.

I'm hoping that such strong words from Rowe mean that we're safely under the cap (which I believe we are).

Bear in mind that Saracen's used just as strong language, and seemed to genuinely believe that they'd found a real loophole, and are objecting to being told that the loophole doesn't exist.

Having said that, I don't think anyone else is breaking the cap, and suspect that Sarries are fine in all aspects other than this business loophole. Let's face it, everyone else has juggled squads, released players they'd rather have kept, and mostly have 1-2 positions of real weakness somewhere in their squad.

And if we did that thats the outcome? Does it go down as a sarries win or nil all draw? Because thats win win for sarries if they get the points because they appeal.

It's a gesture to show discontent, it would surely have to go down as a loss with TBP on the books.
Exeter, of course, would expect to be able to make that sacrifice and still make the semifinals (especially if it's just the Allianz Park matches being boycotted), especially if they were hoping others would join them.

 

[duncanb]

See Saries have boycotted the Euro champs ceremony ERC they will cop a fine.
Looks like a big toys out pram reaction from Sarries.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

See Saries have boycotted the Euro champs ceremony ERC they will cop a fine.
Looks like a big toys out pram reaction from Sarries.

Might answer the Europe v Prem question anyway.

 

[Scotty]

Anything come out on how long the appeal will take to sort? How long till we know if it all stands?

Sarries are like already been fined 5.3 million whats one more little fine.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

They're not even in trouble with the Champions cup though,

I guess they just don't want the awkward questions from the press/glances from the opposition players/coaches - y'allready know Dimes would delight in throwing some snide comments McCall's way.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Bear in mind that Saracen's used just as strong language, and seemed to genuinely believe that they'd found a real loophole, and are objecting to being told that the loophole doesn't exist.

Yes, and I'll bet they were acting under some pretty high calibre legal and or accountancy advice. Wray has the financial firepower to bring in top advisers and make a real fight out of the appeal.

Compliance is with required with rules, not the spirit of rules.

 

[Dai Perk]

It's interesting to me how different leagues handle the whole idea of a cap...

MLB: No salary cap - teams can pay any amount they can afford. Obviously, big market teams have more money and always get the best players, so teams like the Yankees are always in the running and the Milwaukee Brewers never will be.
NBA: Strict salary cap with lots of caveats, including a "super max" deal for teams' best players. Contracts are guaranteed, which is how my Celtics ended up paying Vin Baker for like 3 years after he'd been run out of the league for being a drunk.
NFL: Strict salary cap, but contracts are not guaranteed - you can sign someone for 3 years at $12 Million per, then just cut him after the first. There's also the "Franchise Tag," whereby, rather than negotiating an actual contract with someone you know expects a ton of money, you just 'tag' him and his salary becomes the average of like the top 10 people at his position. Odd thing, and makes the player angry, obviously.

Way back, Mark Cuban figured out how to get good players to come to Dallas by just going all-in on the extras... Super plush locker rooms, unbelievable training facilities, video games, massage therapists, all the things that aren't money, but that would cost you a lot of extra money if you were to get them on your own. I feel sure the Sarries do that, but this obviously must have been something more. I'm disappointed thus far with the lack of details forthcoming from the Prem, but maybe that's just because they're "reviewing" it?...

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

It's interesting to me how different leagues handle the whole idea of a cap...

MLB: No salary cap - teams can pay any amount they can afford. Obviously, big market teams have more money and always get the best players, so teams like the Yankees are always in the running and the Milwaukee Brewers never will be.
NBA: Strict salary cap with lots of caveats, including a "super max" deal for teams' best players. Contracts are guaranteed, which is how my Celtics ended up paying Vin Baker for like 3 years after he'd been run out of the league for being a drunk.
NFL: Strict salary cap, but contracts are not guaranteed - you can sign someone for 3 years at $12 Million per, then just cut him after the first. There's also the "Franchise Tag," whereby, rather than negotiating an actual contract with someone you know expects a ton of money, you just 'tag' him and his salary becomes the average of like the top 10 people at his position. Odd thing, and makes the player angry, obviously.

Way back, Mark Cuban figured out how to get good players to come to Dallas by just going all-in on the extras... Super plush locker rooms, unbelievable training facilities, video games, massage therapists, all the things that aren't money, but that would cost you a lot of extra money if you were to get them on your own. I feel sure the Sarries do that, but this obviously must have been something more. I'm disappointed thus far with the lack of details forthcoming from the Prem, but maybe that's just because they're "reviewing" it?...

the Harvard Sports Analytics Committee did a study on parity on sports leagues and found that MLB and NFL have the same parity (MLB actually slightly fairer). The financial structure has almost no impact on the parity of the league. What follows is purely my hypothesis. It has mostly to due with the structure of the league (league table vs playoffs), how random the game is itself, and the economic disparities between cities.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

also doesn't the draft help with parity to some extent?

 

[Dai Perk]

the Harvard Sports Analytics Committee did a study on parity on sports leagues and found that MLB and NFL have the same parity (MLB actually slightly fairer)

Wow! That's incredibly surprising to me. Since I don't actually follow baseball, I guess it was just my perception. But it's intriguing that two leagues with opposite salary cap theories could both have parity.

 

[The Seeker]

Wow! That's incredibly surprising to me. Since I don't actually follow baseball, I guess it was just my perception. But it's intriguing that two leagues with opposite salary cap theories could both have parity.

I do follow baseball and nothing surprises me in the world of Professional $ports. I mean that in a sarcastic manner.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Quins players and past coaches really hammering Sarries in the press for cheating... Glass houses, stones and blood everywhere comes to mind!

 

[Rinkadink]

Anything come out on how long the appeal will take to sort? How long till we know if it all stands?

Sarries are like already been fined 5.3 million whats one more little fine.

Useful Twitter thread I stumbled upon somewhere;

https://mobile.twitter.com/timoconnorbl/status/1191680940701110273

Key bit;

"Fifth, and one I don't think I've seen highlighted elsewhere: they do not have an appeal, still less a full de novo appeal on fact and law. Instead, they have a *review*, a very different beast, and one limited to what are, in essence, judicial review points"

So might be sooner than we would otherwise expect.

 

[duncanb]

Quins players and past coaches really hammering Sarries in the press for cheating... Glass houses, stones and blood everywhere comes to mind!

Hard to argue.

 

[Scotty]

Im wondering something are sarries over the salary cap? Or are they within the salary cap but also gone into business with their players? If its the second theres a chance the business is a side deal meaning not in the contracts meaning sarries could hold the players to the contracts even though they take away the business deals. There for not 'HAVE TO' sell players to be under next year. Be a dick move to keep them there if they wont to go or are being under paid but still.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's what Sarries are arguing, that the business investments are completely separate from rugby

 

[Scotty]

That's what Sarries are arguing, that the business investments are completely separate from rugby

But then they get told they have to stop as they would prob bring in new rules for this. Players wouldnt want to stay as they are being screwed.