[RWC2023] Wales vs Australia (24/09/2023)

[SG59_]

I don't think there's much defence for Eddie other than the short timeframe. He needed to keep a spine of experience to the team. Looking at Wales for example they still have the experienced guys there such as Biggar, Williams, Falateu, North etc.

Definitely. I'm not defending him 100%, but like England and Wales it's pretty clear the issue are not all on him. Even before he took over Australia did not look good.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Definitely. I'm not defending him 100%, but like England and Wales it's pretty clear the issue are not all on him. Even before he took over Australia did not look good.

They didn't look good but my he seems to have made them worse. I'm not sure if it's fair to say but Australia seem to have similar problems that Eddie's later England had, set piece, gameplan etc.

 

[BPM]

Yeah you can almost exactly trace their loss to that lineout. If they take the kick and it's 10-9, it's a far different game. So much more cagey… Wales whilst possibly win; it is not this blow out.

Game deciding moment right then and there.

I agree. Donaldson making a good break only to pass to a Welsh defender was another big moment. Had Australia nailed either, it might well have been a different game. I still think Wales would have won, but it might not have been the complete demolition we saw in the second half.

Full credit to Wales though. They were excellent.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Didn't like Wales players parading in front of their fans like they'd won the RWC. Good win but put it in perspective it's a place in the QF and a win v a poor Wallabies side.

 

[BenniMarco]

Didn't like Wales players parading in front of their fans like they'd won the RWC. Good win but put it in perspective it's a place in the QF and a win v a poor Wallabies side.

It's where we are right now, we will take these wins and celebrate them rightly. Game by game, this is all good for team spirit I'd say.

Realistically getting past the semi will be one step too far so think it's fair to say we should enjoy and savour these moments!

 

[McTallshort]

That's probably the worst result Australia have had at a WC. No shame losing to Wales (well maybe a bit) but to go down like that in the 2nd half was just embarrassing. I remember no matter how weak an Aussie side was they would never get hammered and were always competitive but that kind of ended tonight.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It's where we are right now, we will take these wins and celebrate them rightly. Game by game, this is all good for team spirit I'd say.

Realistically getting past the semi will be one step too far so think it's fair to say we should enjoy and savour these moments!

Same with Ireland. They were celebrating like they'd won the whole competition as well. It's just the pool stage.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

See they can only type one word

Someone saw you type it and was so enraged they had to sign up just to post that.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Same with Ireland. They were celebrating like they'd won the whole competition as well. It's just the pool stage.

Every team has taken a lap at every game, win or lose. Nothing to criticise anyone with.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Every team has taken a lap at every game, win or lose. Nothing to criticise anyone with.

Almost like thanking the fans is actually the humble thing

Especially travelling ones

 

[McTallshort]

Let the players enjoy their moments with the fans. Might be the last time many get to play in a world cup

 

[dirty harry]

I find it baffling, the idea that Aus could have done much to have changed the nature of the game.

From the first scrum it was clear Gareth Thomas had slipper on toast, however he was being too aggressive and coming up.

I think Gatland may well have just pulled a master stroke, analysing both Fiji and Australia, and playing to their strengths from the off. It seems like suicide kicking the ball to world class backs and saying come and have a go if you think your hard enough.

Gatland expected a reaction from aus, and handed them keys to the car and said drive, they threw the kitchen sink at Wales first 25 mins and after that they were bust. You could tell heads were down, the pack especially was defeated.

I think it's time Wales received some credit for their improvements under Gatland, favourites for wooden spoon, and supposedly in a dog fight to qualify...

I dont think England or Argentina fancy facing Wales now, and I'm going to put my neck on the line and say I dont think SA or France fancy playing Wales either, this Welsh gameplan is designed to smother, exhaust and suckerpunch, and both of those attacks are based on brute force.

All that said, I dont think Ireland have anything to worry about lol

 

[Joe 90]

Gatland has been with Wales for 1 month longer than Jones with Australia, and Wales were every bit as dogshit as Australia. No defence. Jones also managed to utterly destroy England in the preceding years too.

He wrecked England and he has wrecked Australia .....and his teams wreck the game.....

 

[Joe 90]

Anscome had a huge game.....

 

[BrokenWing]

I remain committed to the Australia project. I still believe I am the person to turn things around.

Shame for Australia then.

I was put in this job to turn Australia around and I don't think I could have done it with the players we had.

Weren't they turning around before you came in?

This is the most painful time but also the best time to learn for young players.

By picking only one in a key position and then dropping them like a hot potato after a bad game?

 

[dirty harry]

Anscome had a huge game.....

I've heard this a few times, but did he really?

The Welsh pack were dominant, the Welsh attack outside him was limited. He missed a few kicks, he didnt kick particularly well ball in hand...

I thought he was ok, better than V Portufal but hes hardly there yet

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Not here to defend Eddie but yesterday's performance was so bad, soooo dire that i don't believe all the blame should lie on him.
A winger grabs the ball in his 22, starts running sideways at slow speed, and then drops the ball out of nowhere... well that is not something i'd blame the coach for. You could argue he is responsible for selection, but i can't recall Koroibete doing something like that before. Or Carter missing touch. And sure, again with the selection thingie. Eddie is responsible for that. But these weren't strategic mistakes or missed tackles or stupid decisions made by the players. These are elementary things that most 16-year-olds playing amateur leagues get right 99% of the time.
I can't recall a performance like this and I watched Eng v Arg two weeks ago.

Most times when you watch a game you can tell whether a team is following the wrong strat or not. Or at least have a view on it. Too direct, kicking too much/not enough, playing too much with the fwds, too little, too frontal, not using the backs enough, etc. Sometimes you genuinely have no idea what the team is trying to do (again, Arg vs Eng). And on some very rare occasions, you get to witness a team that fails at absolutely everything they attempt to do. Everything. And not only do they fail, but they fail so miserably and so early in each play that it is impossible to even attempt to guess what they were trying to do. That was Aus yesterday.

 

[dirty harry]

Not here to defend Eddie but yesterday's performance was so bad, soooo dire that i don't believe all the blame should lie on him.
A winger grabs the ball in his 22, starts running sideways at slow speed, and then drops the ball out of nowhere... well that is not something i'd blame the coach for. You could argue he is responsible for selection, but i can't recall Koroibete doing something like that before. Or Carter missing touch. And sure, again with the selection thingie. Eddie is responsible for that. But these weren't strategic mistakes or missed tackles or stupid decisions made by the players. These are elementary things that most 16-year-olds playing amateur leagues get right 99% of the time.
I can't recall a performance like this and I watched Eng v Arg two weeks ago.

Most times when you watch a game you can tell whether a team is following the wrong strat or not. Or at least have a view on it. Too direct, kicking too much/not enough, playing too much with the fwds, too little, too frontal, not using the backs enough, etc. Sometimes you genuinely have no idea what the team is trying to do (again, Arg vs Eng). And on some very rare occasions, you get to witness a team that fails at absolutely everything they attempt to do. Everything. And not only do they fail, but they fail so miserably and so early in each play that it is impossible to even attempt to guess what they were trying to do. That was Aus yesterday.

I would suggest that players who are too young, have the heap of a nation piled upon them then unceremoniously dropped probably have a confidence issue.

Teams who's coach has confused them, left their leaders at home, then interviewed for another job weeks before a world cup might have a trust issue with strategy.

Teams who watch their coach have a breakdown in front of cameras, arguing with journalists, being sarcastic and aggressive dont have confidence instilled in them.

Ultimately, world class players make mistakes when under pressure, both on and off the field. After throwing the kitchen sink at Wales and getting no reward Aus had to take new risks, but had no plan B.

As a coach myself I take every element of performance personally, mistakes from individuals are a result of my performance directly.

I dont hate Jones, I understand why he does what he does in most cases, but leading up to this world cup, and during his interviews have become more and more desperate. He reiterates the sound bite he wants journalists to use over and over, his use of the word mate has increased 10 fold, and his combative nature to everyone involved with Aus rugby has been bizarre.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

left their leaders at home,

I was thinking about this. What if, hypothetically (i'm trying to give him ALL the benefit of the doubt), Eddie Jones was told 'dont do TOO bad in 2023, but the real goal is 2027's WC'. I dont like how Hooper was treated, not one bit, but i can imagine scenarios (which i couldnt possibly confirm one way or the other) that would explain it. It'd still look terrible to the outside world, but the reasons behind it would be very different.
I am probably being too lenient. Again, hypothetical and giving him a lot of rope.

After throwing the kitchen sink at Wales and getting no reward Aus had to take new risks, but had no plan B.

That's not what i saw. I saw a team who couldn't even find the city with a map and a tour guide, let alone the house, kitchen or sink.

As a coach myself I take every element of performance personally, mistakes from individuals are a result of my performance directly.

I understand that comes from a good place, but i dont think that is true. You taking it personally and you being able to manipulate it at will are two very different things.
Coaches dont have a control board where they can simply input actions and behaviours and players follow them blindly. Not every human action can be dissected and traced back to it's root causes. Let alone by a rugby coach. Some causalities are or might seem obvious, but many are not.

I get the way to judge their performance relies firstly on results, but i hope we can agree this is not an exact science. Sometimes we (mostly me) expect coaches to be flawless strategists, opposition analysts, nutritionists, logistic specialists, motivational experts, PR virtuosos, and why not, clairvoyants. They are not. They are human and the puzzle they face is not only gargantuan but also has a considerable share of unknowns and unknown unknowns.

He ****** up and he knows it.

Not even the contrarian in me believes i ended up defending Jones. Oh well, badge of shame i suppose.

 

[dirty harry]

'What if, hypothetically (i'm trying to give him ALL the benefit of the doubt), Eddie Jones was told 'dont do TOO bad in 2023, but the real goal is 2027's'

I think this is very important, I cant imagine a scenario where Hooper was left home after a minor injury in the RC, and the ARU having nothing to say about it. I think Jones was given Carte Blanche to build to the home 25 lions and 27 RWC. They NEED this for the sports existence