[RWC2023 SF2] England vs South Africa (21/10/2023)

[LIONSxv]

Danty and Fickou still have a few years in front of them, and I am sure you have noticed that France has been U20 world champions in the last 3 editions (2018, 2019, 2023).
Emilien Gailleton (20 yrs old, born in Croydon BTW) was the leading try scorer in Top14 last season, and you will hear about Paul Costes and Nicolas Depoortere soon, the English U20 have already got the word. So I do not think there is a real problem for the future of 10, 12 and 13 for France. Which have never been problem position for France to be honest, 1 and 3 are much better candidates.
Most of the time, the U20 is a good indication of what lays ahead in rugby. But I am all ears if you think you have first rate centers ready to bloom in England.

Danty will be 35 and fickou nearly 34, they won't be your next WC pairing

I was waiting for the U20 stuff. The French seem to think that rugby was only invented in 2019 just to give you a heads up u20s success means very little at men's level. England won the thing twice and we're also runners up over the course of three years , they won no WCs
Conversely the South Africans who have no real record at U20s won a WC and are in another final. You are overestimating the link between u20s success and winning cups at men's level

 

[bapean]

Tbh I think that Canan Moodie could really be the future for the Boks in the centre

 

[bapean]

Danty will be 35 and fickou nearly 34, they won't be your next WC pairing

I was waiting for the U20 stuff. The French seem to think that rugby was only invented in 2019 just to give you a heads up u20s success means very little at men's level. England won the thing twice and we're also runners up over the course of three years , they won no WCs
Conversely the South Africans who have no real record at U20s won a WC and are in another final. You are overestimating the link between u20s success and winning cups at men's level

Yeah it means nothing, but they are already doing some great games in Top 14.

But I reckon that there is a huge gap between U20, Top 14 and then big international games.

 

[Wichita]

Well Dupont, Jalibert, Mauvaka, Ntamack, Penaud, Gros, Woki, Marchand, Jelonch, Ramos were all part of those U20 teams, so U20 success must have some sort of meaning
At least in countries where rugby boards are doing their job. I'll be chauvinistic, FFR has been doing an excellent job for a while. In my opinion, that shows in the depth of talent, but there are different models and we can agree to disagree.
Any name for 12 and 13, apart from Kelly who has one cap ?

 

[g6mcg]

I don't know if this is the place for it but I'm curious where others think the state of refereeing is in terms of, for want of a better word, tenability - after this cup? It feels like this tournament has seen new levels of questioning and acrimony regarding the officiation of the game. Equally this is always an issue to some degree each world cup. Just not sure if my perception has been warped because of the last few rounds....

There's been a couple of moments in the tournament which you simply can't put a price tag on in terms of the importance of a single decision.

For me the problem is rugby is a game of perpetual infringements and cheating. If you're supporting your team and focusing on the refereeing you'll see a lot of "missed" calls. Once you lose trust that the referees are doing without fear of intimidation the sport is ******.

It's always been helpful to highlight things in the media in the days leading up to a game. I'd have liked that to have been nipped in the bud but at least it was somewhat contained.

Unfortunately over the past two years we've seen the benefits of being highly critical of referees and now everyone wants in.

 

[LIONSxv]

Well Dupont, Jalibert, Mauvaka, Ntamack, Penaud, Gros, Woki, Marchand, Jelonch, Ramos were all part of those U20 teams, so U20 success must have some sort of meaning
At least in countries were rugby boards are doing their job. I'll be chauvinistic, FFR has been doing an excellent job for a while. In my opinion, that shows in the depth of talent, but there are different models and we can agree to disagree.
Any name for 12 and 13, apart from Kelly who has one cap ?

How many WCs has this group won, how many semi finals have they reached ?
U20s success does not equate to success as men's level. By this equation England beat the French u18s 40 odd nill in the summer...it means little
Tbh I find the whole premise of the debate confusing. I get that you don't like England are having a bit of dig. But the point you are making is that England won't be able to replace Farrell who is not a centre and Tulagi who never plays...it's a weird line of thought
I'd suggest you focus on France and your shortcomings at a WC when everything was stacked in your favour and let the English worry about who will replace our centres. Positions that have been a problem for ten years

 

[LIONSxv]

Tbh I think that Canan Moodie could really be the future for the Boks in the centre

He looks the real deal to me, proper player

 

[nicb_wrld]

I was in the stadium yesterday (what a poor level game) O'keefe is the new Craig joubert for french. Incredible noise when he was on screen.
Mike him, he certainly make excuses in 10 years saying he ****-up.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Ah, get off it. First half we were attacking on the English line and Mostert was tackled by two players where neither even attempted to wrap spilled the ball. Attacking opportunity gone begging. Then at the end end of the half Kolbe was taken out in the air. What would've been a yc previous world cup somehow bok found a way to penalize PSDT for standing still and 3 points for England. I could go on and on about continuing off sides that killed any shot of constructive play and the first half rucks especially but it'd be totally pointless. You are cherry picking and coming off looking graceless. I understand that it'll be the latter non calls that'll stick but you clearly have a chip on your shoulder. Take a break from the sport. You need it.

Don't forget in the first half, in the SA 22, Kolisi competing for a fair ball only for O'Keefe to say there was a ruck formed despite the England player coming in from the side.

Bad calls were made in favour of both teams.

 

[Wichita]

How many WCs has this group won, how many semi finals have they reached ?
U20s success does not equate to success as men's level. By this equation England beat the French u18s 40 odd nill in the summer...it means little
Tbh I find the whole premise of the debate confusing. I get that you don't like England are having a bit of dig. But the point you are making is that England won't be able to replace Farrell who is not a centre and Tulagi who never plays...it's a weird line of thought
I'd suggest you focus on France and your shortcomings at a WC when everything was stacked in your favour and let the English worry about who will replace our centres. Positions that have been a problem for ten year

Please read my posts again, I am sure you'll see they do not express the opinions you refer to in this last post.
But if you do not see it, no issue. Let each member only talk about their teams, their games, their future. I suggest to the moderation team they create specific forums for each nationality so everybody can focus on their team and forget the rest, what do all these people know about our rugby !

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Please read my posts again, I am sure you'll see they do not express the opinions you refer to in this last post.
But if you do not see it, no issue. Let each member only talk about their teams, their games, their future. I suggest to the moderation team they create specific forums for each nationality so everybody can focus on their team and forget the rest, what do all these people know about our rugby !

This is made even funnier by the fact that this isn't a France thread

 

[Wichita]

This is made even funnier by the fact that this isn't a France thread

My initial post wasn't either
I was just told that I shouldn't be allowed to talk about the future of English rugby (what the hell do you know about that) and that I should focus on France's future only...

 

[LIONSxv]

Please read my posts again, I am sure you'll see they do not express the opinions you refer to in this last post.
But if you do not see it, no issue. Let each member only discuss about their teams, their games, their future. I suggest to the moderation team they create specific forums for each nationality so everybody can focus on their team and forget the rest, what do all these people know about our rugby

Now your just been sensitive

I get that your disappointed that you did not win the WC. However the point remains u20 success does not equate to men's WC success

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Yeh kinda my view on it.

South Africans are saying it's windgat which honestly makes more sense. Is **** popular in SA like it is England and Aus?

Perhaps people you know shouldn't jump to the worse, especially in such a noisy environment and with how different languages and accents are. If this was the other that's probably what you would be calling for let's be real.

Some people are suggesting he said "wit kant" at a scrum which means "white side" and would refer to who has the put in at the scrum.

It honestly sounds like a reasonable explanation.

 

[nicb_wrld]

Like i said, i was in stadium yesterday.
poor game and no passion.. i have 2 tickets for the final and i don't know if i want to go (french Livin Paris).
if good offer i can sell them : cat.2 450e (face value, only for information ).
if Someone is intersted : [email protected]

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Reports in SA media saying Mbonambi was referring to the ball being on the white side which would in English literally sound precisely like "white ****", "kant" meaning side. Wit being 1 syllable and Engelse being 3 syllables. Very probable just lost in translation. We'll have to see if there video showing context. Might be Mbonambi dodging but just as easily might be Curry misreading the intention. Question is whether Mbonambi is speaking Afrikaans for the benefit of his team mates or speaking directly at Curry.

South African players are encouraged to speak afrikaans during games because it makes it harder for opponents to dissect and understand communication. This happens especially during line outs and scrums.

Not that I have to tell you that, but more for non-South Africans here

 

[Wichita]

Now your just been sensitive

I get that your disappointed that you did not win the WC. However the point remains u20 success does not equate to men's WC success

There is no link with the current WC. I wish you would have pointed my attention on some young English 12 or 13 that will bloom on the international stage in the next few years. That was the point I was trying to make, no dig, no disregard, no prejudice

 

[Bada-Bing!]

If it's not on tape then he'll probably get away with an explanation like that which is possible. But not shaking Tim's hand at the end? Not that that is a citable offence.

 

[LIONSxv]

There is no link with the current WC. I wish you would have pointed my attention on some young English 12 or 13 that will bloom on the international stage in the next few years. That was the point I was trying to make, no dig, no disregard, no prejudice

This is boring now tbh

 

[Wichita]

This is boring now tbh

This is boring now tbh

So sorry I brought your testosterone levels to a boiling point