[RWC2023] England vs Japan (17/09/2023)

[TRF_Olyy]

Clearly the attack is there....

...where?
Don't think we even looked particularly comfortable attacking when the shackles came off in the final few minutes

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Youngs Ford Malins Faz Manu Steward Smith

Thats what im expecting as many kickers as possible with no-one to play.

FTFY

We don't need playmakers because we don't play. We are just going to leather it every 3rd phase at least.

 

[Scotty]

FTFY

We don't need playmakers because we don't play. We are just going to leather it every 3rd phase at least.

Kick kick kick, cross field to steward, kick kick kick they kick it back to our 22....repeat.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

FTFY

We don't need playmakers because we don't play. We are just going to leather it every 3rd phase at least.

Third phase? Bit optimistic

 

[Geordie]

...where?
Don't think we even looked particularly comfortable attacking when the shackles came off in the final few minutes

There were glimpses. Its there...it just needs work.

Look...it wasnt great...but as i said above...this is a complete rebuild...which he was expected to do AFTER the world cup. Things are improving...just not at the pace many and im sure SB would like.

At least the fitness, set piece and defence is now looking like its coming together. Two wins...that EVERYONE said we'd lose going in to this world cup. 1 try conceded...after 65 mins of playing with 14 men. Its ot all doom and gloom.

More tactical control, shrewdness and intelligence is required. But that wll take time. Maybe it will also take a personnel change...which im sure SB is already aware of. But some of the new kids arent quite ready yet.

The big step forwards will come next year...6n, but particularly Summer tour and AIs

 

[TRF_Olyy]

set piece

Scrum was ok, but the lineout was genuinely embarrassing

 

[Geordie]

No the lineout wasnt embarrasing...its improving.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No the lineout wasnt embarrasing...its improving.

I think you definitely watched a different game to the rest of us - i think it was the worst it's ever been with George at 2
Was it three? Four? clean steals and two freekicks for closing the gap

 

[Geordie]

You definitely watched a different game to the rest of us - it was the worst it's ever been with George at 2
Think it was three? Four? clean steals and two freekicks for closing the gap

Nope...

I just think everyone seems to expect us to be playing like SA or France...and forget just how far back we went under Jones, and hes now doing it to Australia. It will take time to repair that damage.

Was it great viewing...no not really. Have things improved...yes actually they have. Will they continue to improve...yes they will.

Will we win the WC...Nope.
Did we expect to win the WC....Nope.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Nope...

I just think everyone seems to expect us to be playing like SA or France...and forget just how far back we went under Jones, and hes now doing it to Australia. It will take time to repair that damage.

Was it great viewing...no not really. Have things improved...yes actually they have. Will they continue to improve...yes they will.

Will we win the WC...Nope.
Did we expect to win the WC....Nope.

He is talking specifically about the lineout though, which was objectively terrible.

 

[Geordie]

He is talking specifically about the lineout though, which was objectively terrible.

England won 10 out of their 13 throws and stole 2 of Japans.
How is that objectively terrible?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He is talking specifically about the lineout though, which was objectively terrible.

Ennit,
George throwing to Itoje/Chessum/Lawes/Ludlam is very easily the best possible lineout we have in the squad (/probably the country - I can't think of a player coming in who would improve it) and it was a complete mess

 

[Geordie]

Ennit,
George throwing to Itoje/Chessum/Lawes/Ludlam is very easily the best possible lineout we have in the squad (/probably the country - I can't think of a player coming in who would improve it) and it was a complete mess

How was it??? The stats are above...!! Hardly a mess!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

How was it??? The stats are above...!! Hardly a mess!

Because 10/13 against a side whose tallest jumper was only 6'5 is poor. If we perform like that against any Tier 1 side (all of whom will have jumpers who are 6'7+) we'll be looking at winning half of our own lineouts.

 

[Geordie]

Because 10/13 against a side whose tallest jumper was only 6'5 is poor. If we perform like that against any Tier 1 side (all of whom will have jumpers who are 6'7+) we'll be looking at winning half of our own lineouts.

Well we'll deal with that as it comes...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

View attachment 17773
Aaand I'm done.

An element of "Only smart people can understand what they're doing"

I'm seeing quite a lot of people conflating what we saw in the Argentina and Japan games, which doesn't make sense.

In game one, people were saying how bad our attack was which is not untrue, obviously, but also a bit strange given that we kicked something like 43 out of 45 times we had possession, so there were limited examples to go off. I'm sure there were examples of a poor decision to kick but I can't think of any off the top of my head. The rationale for a kicking gameplan was pretty clear to me.

Against Japan we frequently made poor decisions to kick with poor execution when there were better options. So to use them as collective evidence for a genius kicking game is dumb.

 

[Geordie]

Because 10/13 against a side whose tallest jumper was only 6'5 is poor. If we perform like that against any Tier 1 side (all of whom will have jumpers who are 6'7+) we'll be looking at winning half of our own lineouts.

PS Itoje is only 6'5 and our best jumper....

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Because 10/13 against a side whose tallest jumper was only 6'5 is poor. If we perform like that against any Tier 1 side (all of whom will have jumpers who are 6'7+) we'll be looking at winning half of our own lineouts.

Have you seen the Wales lineout?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

PS Itoje is only 6'5 and our best jumper....

Chessum is 6'8 and Lawes is 6'7. Who says that Itoje is our best jumper? I'd have said Lawes.

 

[Geordie]

Chessum is 6'8 and Lawes is 6'7. Who says that Itoje is our best jumper? I'd have said Lawes.

Yes Chessum is 6'8 and his brother 6'9...as are a few of the kids coming through...hopefully quickly...

But as it stands...Itoje at 6'5 is still a top jumper at this level, Chessum developing and Lawes excellent also.

The lineout won 10 / 13 with 2 steals. If as you say it was a debacle then...once they continue to improve it will be outstanding!