[RWC2019][Semi-Final 1] England vs. New Zealand (26/10/2019)

[Vieux Talonneur]

Eh EJ has suggested he may start with Ford, he's also said he may not it depends what tactics he wants to deploy at what stage of the game. I actually think its very fluid. Farrell is clearly going to start its just a question of 10 or 12. And I can't be arsed to argue my preference anymore.

Fly half fluid? It's a minefield, what pronouns should I use?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I will just point out RE my argument.
I wasn't saying Ford should start v the AB's or not.


Although I think slade will be ripped apart by the AB's TBH.

 

[Scotty]

Youve said it now...thats it its over.

 

[Ferrari333SP]

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/27583628/understanding-all-blacks-supreme-success

 

[j-dawg]

Slade was very leaky in defence last week and there was genuine cause for concern until it became obvious that England had too much for the Wallabies. A Farrell, Manu, JJ midfield is exciting but equally a Ford, Farrell, Manu looks good in a different way.

This is probably the only time in recent history that I can remember England being relatively close to par with the all blacks with a fixture coming up (note: CLOSE to - its always competitive) - and now that that is the case we all seem to have abandoned our classic English arrogance and so, to bringeth the balance, I'm going to provide some arrogant soundbites to cling on to for the next five days and hope that everyone will join me;

- Aussies smashed this all blacks side not long ago and we beat the Aussies - therefore we are the better team and people
- Yeah New Zealand smashed Ireland but who hasn't these days?
- The Haka gives an unfair advantage
- Richie Mccaw is a cheat
- 2003
- Wilkinson is the highest rated player on EA rugby 08
- Courtney Lawes wasn't offside so technically we won. Eddie Jones 1 - Steve Hansen 0.

You're welcome.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Eh EJ has suggested he may start with Ford, he's also said he may not it depends what tactics he wants to deploy at what stage of the game. I actually think its very fluid. Farrell is clearly going to start its just a question of 10 or 12. And I can't be arsed to argue my preference anymore.

The more I think about it the more I think we'll see Ford/Farrell/Manu

Ford's issue is physics not defensive technique or positioning - ABs don't have a Nonu or similar in the midfield so there's no freight trains to target him.
As mentioned somewhere above: The ABs will score tries so we're gonna have to as well, and Ford/Farrell together in the midfield is our best attacking option and Manu plays his best rugby at 13

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The more I think about it the more I think we'll see Ford/Farrell/Manu

Ford's issue is physics not defensive technique or positioning - ABs don't have a Nonu or similar in the midfield so there's no freight trains to target him.
As mentioned somewhere above: The ABs will score tries so we're gonna have to as well, and Ford/Farrell together in the midfield is our best attacking option and Manu plays his best rugby at 13

Makes a lot of sense. Totally agree that Manu's best at 13 and he'll be the one Eng player they'll be worried about above any others.

 

[bushytop]

This game is going to be incredible! Like most people I'd imagine the Blacks should shade it but the raw English power and athleticism could well pose some problems. I'm thinking 25-21(ish) All Blacks.

 

[87Dreamer]

Makes a lot of sense. Totally agree that Manu's best at 13 and he'll be the one Eng player they'll be worried about above any others.

Pffftt they won't be worried, Manu is not even better than Kerevi. If he had a decent playmaker inside him maybe

 

[spartan32]

The more I think about it the more I think we'll see Ford/Farrell/Manu

Ford's issue is physics not defensive technique or positioning - ABs don't have a Nonu or similar in the midfield so there's no freight trains to target him.
As mentioned somewhere above: The ABs will score tries so we're gonna have to as well, and Ford/Farrell together in the midfield is our best attacking option and Manu plays his best rugby at 13

If Manu is to play at 13, which I agree is probably where he does his best work, then you need to have a playmaker at 12. That would tend to suggest a Ford/Faz/Manu set up. Not sure JJ is really a suitable playmaker, but he is really handy however can't see EJ rolling that dice. So it's either going to be Ford/Faz/Manu or Faz/Slade/Manu with Ford/JJ/Hienz on the bench.

of course that then leaves out Nowell and Big Joe as Watson/Daly/May will inevitably be the back 3. My suspected back line would be:

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11.May
12. Faz
13. Manu
14. Watson
15. Daly

Hienz/JJ/Nowell on the bench. That set up beings Manu into the game as much as possible which will be needed, and is familiar and allows Ford and Faz to work instinctively together which again is going to be needed. As everyone has pointed out there are no serious defensive issues there and lots of kicking options which will keep NZ honest (if such as thing were possible) and on their toes, especially with May sharing around to pick up balls dinked through.

should be a proper clash of ***ans. Really looking forward to it.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Let a neutral have bash here since we all play Mr selector at some stage

Remove Slade and Daly, they are your weakest players and will cost you the game
Youngs -Ford- Farrel- Tuilagi - Cokanasiga - May -Watson (bit unsure here so help a man out) and have Joseph and Nowell on the bench with Heinz in a 5/3 split
The above given you a very strong defensive capability and raw power and lots of X-Factor
Doing the same old same old against the Blacks is just going to get your arse kicked

B Vunipola seems tired or just lazy and swap Lawes with Kruis

Eddie can thank me later

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Let a neutral have bash here since we all play Mr selector at some stage

Remove Slade and Daly, they are your weakest players and will cost you the game
Youngs -Ford- Farrel- Tuilagi - Cokanasiga - May -Watson (bit unsure here so help a man out) and have Joseph and Nowell on the bench with Heinz in a 5/3 split
The above given you a very strong defensive capability and raw power and lots of X-Factor
Doing the same old same old against the Blacks is just going to get your arse kicked

B Vunipola seems tired or just lazy and swap Lawes with Kruis

Eddie can thank me later

Cokanasinga - time to unleash him; otherwise why take him all this way? . Yes, doubts about his defence, but as you said England aren't going to win this playing safe. Doesn't mean be reckless either and start him, but personally I would like to see him given the 23 shirt to come on in the last 25 mins.

I seem to remember another big strapping winger having a major impact on an England v AB final 24 years ago, who was also not known for his defence. Time for the shoe to be on the other foot this time.

 

[spartan32]

Let a neutral have bash here since we all play Mr selector at some stage

Remove Slade and Daly, they are your weakest players and will cost you the game
Youngs -Ford- Farrel- Tuilagi - Cokanasiga - May -Watson (bit unsure here so help a man out) and have Joseph and Nowell on the bench with Heinz in a 5/3 split
The above given you a very strong defensive capability and raw power and lots of X-Factor
Doing the same old same old against the Blacks is just going to get your arse kicked

B Vunipola seems tired or just lazy and swap Lawes with Kruis

Eddie can thank me later

Daly is going nowhere fella. He's a mainstay of EJs system in attack and Big Joe, for all he's potential, is just a baby in rugby terms. He's highly unlikely to be rolled out agains the best in the world who will look to expose his lack of experience, and expose they would. Slade can certainly go, and given he looks a little crook he probably won't make the cut , but the rest is just dreaming.

thanks for playing though

 

[Reiser99]

Let a neutral have bash here since we all play Mr selector at some stage

Remove Slade and Daly, they are your weakest players and will cost you the game
Youngs -Ford- Farrel- Tuilagi - Cokanasiga - May -Watson (bit unsure here so help a man out) and have Joseph and Nowell on the bench with Heinz in a 5/3 split
The above given you a very strong defensive capability and raw power and lots of X-Factor
Doing the same old same old against the Blacks is just going to get your arse kicked

B Vunipola seems tired or just lazy and swap Lawes with Kruis

Eddie can thank me later

I can see why yout think that, though as Spartan said, Daly is going nowhere. EJ has nailed his colours to the mast on that one. Problem is Daly gives a lot of creativity in attack in exchange for a lack of security in defence (though I think his catching under the high ball has improved this tournament). Some people are saying gamble with Cokanasiga as England need to attack to win. However with both Daly and Cokanasiga it could be too attacking at the expense of defence. I'd go Blindside and if Cokanasiga is going to play then have him come on at the end against tired legs when his defence won't be as exposed.

The other consideration is will England be chasing a lead or defending a lead. I think EJ was confident that England were always going to be defending a lead against Aus and so picked JJ for the bench. Cokanasiga might be a gamble when England need a more defensive player to help secure a winning position.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

George Bridge 8 caps.

Sevu Reece 6 caps.

Joe Cokanasiga 9 caps.

Just sayin'.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Cokanasiga could be a bench option to bring on for the last 20 minutes but from the last few games I've seen him in, it's a bit too early for him yet. A few too many mistakes down to inexperience and you have to be as close to 100% accurate to beat the AB the way they are playing.

 

[bertiec]

This, I keep asking for evidence where Ford has been a significant liability in defence and it is never produced. It quite simply was that one game against Wasps where Hughes ran over him a few times, there are no other instances I can think of where he performed poorly at all. Yeah he will concede ground a bit but plenty of others do as well without getting criticised for it.

As for Farrell shooting out the line missing tackles, that's all well an good until he shoots out, the players still make ground and now he is miles offside for the next phase and totally absent in defence for that period.

In 2019 so far 53 tackles complete out 55. No high tackles or shoulder infringements, or mardyitis that I can remember. Gives away very few penalties. No liability what so ever. Is it just the fez heads thinking they are the ABs maybe....

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Just looked back at the last time England and NZ met, completely forgot we somehow kept them to 1 try...

 

[mania]

this is gonna be epic. England are a huge threat and this game has been brewing for a long long time. how cool is it that it culminates at the WC?!?
may both teams play some beautiful rugby, play in awesome good spirits and be free of cards and injuries.

bring it

 

[Scotty]

Youngs ford may faz manu watson daly.

Heinz Slade/JJ Nowell/big joe.

Im on the fence. JJ is a more attacking runner but Slades handling can put our dangerous wingers in place. I dod always like the idea of faz may manu slade big joe daly. 2 pace 2 power 2 play makers all split offering threats accross the park.