[RWC2019][Quarter-Final 2] New Zealand vs. Ireland (19/10/2019)

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I disagree. Both New Zealand wings have only come on the scene in the last year. Beauden Barrett's move to fullback wasn't by grand design over the course of 4 years but a decision made in the last few months due to Richie Mo'unga's form at 10 this year. Jack Goodhue and Jordie Barrett are relatively new to test rugby. By comparison, Ireland's backline is staid.

Joe Schmidt made a brave decision two years ago in capping James Ryan, Andrew Porter and Jacob Stockdale and then picking them on form. Ireland benefitted quickly. I feel the coach's main mistake is not continuing that squad development this year and seemingly deciding 12 months ago what the shape of the squad and top team would look like in Japan. The form of Rhys Ruddock, Tadhg Beirne and Jordan Larmour wasn't rewarded.

New Zealand still would have won comprehensively today regardless.

 

[mdmaDeKlerk]

I thought New Zealand would take this game but not like that eh. Sad for the Irish, who are a great rugby nation that can not put it all together at World Cups for whatever reason. Still New Zealand were better today than they were when they beat us at the start of the completion, which is a little worrying to be honest. I think the English can give them a game next week by crikey they will have to be at the top of their game eh. Commiserations to the Irish, you'll get through a quarter final one day, you got too much going for you not too.

 

[Zapphod]

How do England beat the All Blacks?

The normal method is to score more points than they do.

 

[Rinkadink]

I don't think we need to look to the core of Irish rugby right now.

Fans in Connacht (and elsewhere) would probably disagree.

 

[bushytop]

I deliberately left out Wales from the example because I could say a lot about it (head is savage right now and stuff on), but in short it breaks my heart with what's happened to the Welsh clubs and I'm not sure Wales's more recent success is due to regions or in spite of them.

Also Wales have been importing a lot, plus I have taken umbrage with the treatment of players like Rhrodri Williams who was told he had to return for international honours after improving elsewhere and then totally ignored. Its complicated and worthy of a whole thread IMO.

As for the quote, there is only a loss/self harm to England if they accepted a B&I league. A second "celtic" competition with clubs could be viable but would need to tie in with P14. Difficult sell.

All fair comments as usual... if I were English I probably wouldn't want it either if I'm honest.

I won't derail this by going into the Welsh side of things though so back onto Ireland, what with Rugby 'still' not as popular as other sports (& seemingly a growing backlash towards it in some quarters in Ireland) I'm just not sure that a national league would provide the necessary dividends that isn't being provided with the way things stand now.

In fact it could cause Ireland to regress if the stand alone national league is less competitive than the Pro 14.

 

[munstermuffin]

I disagree. Both New Zealand wings have only come on the scene in the last year. Beauden Barrett's move to fullback wasn't by grand design over the course of 4 years but a decision made in the last few months due to Richie Mo'unga's form at 10 this year. Jack Goodhue and Jordie Barrett are relatively new to test rugby. By comparison, Ireland's backline is staid.

Joe Schmidt made a brave decision two years ago in capping James Ryan, Andrew Porter and Jacob Stockdale and then picking them on form. Ireland benefitted quickly. I feel the coach's main mistake is not continuing that squad development this year and seemingly deciding 12 months ago what the shape of the squad and top team would look like in Japan. The form of Rhys Ruddock, Tadhg Beirne and Jordan Larmour wasn't rewarded.

New Zealand still would have won comprehensively today regardless.

No but there wasn't players there 2 years ago who had no chance of being at same levels this year. Now the opposite would be how hard is it to judge form of all those mentioned. Yes POM was off form. But equally were Beirne and Ruddock really on form. Yes both played well but Russia is a big difference from New Zealand. I'm not disagreeing more saying there is no real evidence these guys were tearing up trees

 

[Leinster Fan]

I think franchising/regional rugby at the expense of domestic depth and competitions is a problem.

You can assemble a decent enough squad but then it starts to look flaky and doesn't provide enough support for a proper professional game. I think the Japanese are looking to approach pro rugby in the correct manner but it may take some time to really reap the rewards. Super Rugby nations may be starting to feel the effects of this kind of things too, Oz before the others due to the falloff below their SR sides (see NRL and Kangaroos for the opposite). SA and NZ have better domestic competitions but numbers and quality are slowly starting to drop, Argentina put all their eggs in the SR basket and they've gone backwards.

If Ireland could figure out a means to grow the game domestically I think they'd go that little bit further.

To be honest we're squeezing every drop out of the game at the moment given popularity levels, we really have no right to produce what we do given that rugby is a distant second third sport outside of a few small specific areas.

All four provinces are in a really good place overall, and the game has grown massively this side of the millennium, our problems with world cups start at a higher level then the fundamental structure of the game which I honestly dont think we could do better.

 

[O’Doyle Rules]

Knew within the first 5 minutes that we were not up for it today.

Sloppy performance. I do wonder if we didn't make those mistakes whether it might have been a good contest.

Anyway, things move quickly in sport (as we can see from 2018-2019 Ireland). Joe Schmidt has done an excellent job. I have spent the last 6 years mostly very happy with Irish rugby and just because we have had a poor World Cup we shouldn't slate him. He may well have a big influence going forward (inspiring youngsters watching the wins against NZ, grand slam etc.).

All Blacks proved their class and can see them going up another gear for England. When people write them off they seem to turn up with a point to prove.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

Ahhhh Ireland, resuming your place as perennial pretenders of the Elite Rugby playing nations.

They have to be the most overrated test rugby nation.

 

[Hanley!]

I was despondent after the loss to Argentina in 2015, but I'm relatively at peace this time around. I was hoping for a big performance, and I thought we had a shot if we started well. But I've had a feeling for months now that it would be another early exit. We've felt like a team in decline this year, and as good as Schmidt has been for building international rugby in Ireland, it does feel like he's taken us as far as he can. I'm looking forward to seeing what changes come with the new regime, even if it starts out a little rocky. Our starting 15 is likely to change a lot over the next couple of years, and that's exciting too.

I'll be cheering on Japan from here on out obviously, but if they're eliminated by South Africa, I hope one of the other Six Nations teams goes on to win the trophy. It'd be nice to get a crack at the new world champions early next year.

 

[Rinkadink]

They have to be the most overrated test rugby nation.

Canadia has to be a contender, but right now I think that ***le probably goes to Argentina. Remember they were hyped to the max and were going to be second to NZ before the tournament and warm up matches.

Ireland have certainly performed on the big stage multiple times.

 

[Rinkadink]

I honestly dont think we could do better.

I do after visiting, I think England's RFU had similar thoughts for a while. There are nearly always things that can be done better, in fairness it's probably harder to see from a Leinster perspective and maybe wrong time to be discussing after a very disappointing performance.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

Canadia has to be a contender, but right now I think that ***le probably goes to Argentina. Remember they were hyped to the max and were going to be second to NZ before the tournament and warm up matches.

Ireland have certainly performed on the big stage multiple times.

Nah we have been absolute **** for awhile and everyone knows we are ****.

I didn't hear anyone hyping Argentina. Argentina have a wealth of talent but have gone backwards because they stupidly have decided to only pick players from one measly team. They were better when they had 80+ players playing Rugby in Europe to chose from.

 

[Rinkadink]

I didn't hear anyone hyping Argentina.

Sorry (not sorry) but LOL

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

We're not pretenders, we obviously have the class.

Chokers though....

******* strangle me to death, it'd be more comfortable.

 

[bushytop]

I didn't hear anyone hyping Argentina.

There was definitely a lot of Argentine confidence going into the World Cup... partly from them having done well at World Cups before and in part off the back of the Jaguares Super Rugby season.

Lets not dance on the graves of either nation though.

 

[profitius]

Ahhhh Ireland, resuming your place as perennial pretenders of the Elite Rugby playing nations.

They have to be the most overrated test rugby nation.

That's bollix. All the talk before it started was about NZ, SA or England winning it. We were HOPING to reach a semi final despite being ranked 1st as the tournament started.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

That's bollix. All the talk before it started was about NZ, SA or England winning it. We were HOPING to reach a semi final despite being ranked 1st as the tournament started.

Never made it past a QF, on par with Canada!

I'm just having a laugh btw, don't take me too seriously!

 

[ThebigARena]

I think this shows a key difference between the sides. New Zealand have lots of options out wide. What other nation can afford to leave somebody like Rieko Ioane out? They select on form. Ireland selected on reputation.

Keith Earls was a world class wing. He hasn't been this year though.

Agree with this entirely I remember us picking Alex Cuthbert far past his sell by date, but also just because they perform for club it does not mean they perform for country ,Steffan Evans being a good example of this so the national coaches have a difficult job to say the least hence why most go back to the tried and tested for country.

 

[Jer1cho]

Well, that was just super deflating. I actually just feel pretty empty about it all. It's not like the Wales game in the Six Nations or the Japan game where I was really angry, this is just so disappointing.

I remember growing up and watching England in the 2003 and 2007 (Cueto wasn't in touch) world cup finals and being really jealous. Much like Heineken Cups with Munster while Leinster failed year after year, I kind of just assumed that winning, or even competing, at the highest level was something my teams didn't do. Leinster eventually got there (and stayed there) but over a decade on and Ireland still haven't gotten any closer to the promised land. Like surely at some point I'm going to be able to watch a semi-final or a final as something other than an interested neutral but every four years I lose another bit of hope. Ffs this is easily the best team the island has ever produced (both in terms of player quality and when you compare them to other teams around the world) and the best they can come up with is a 32 point loss in the quarter final having lost to Japan in the pool stages. There's a bucket load of young talent at the provinces right now but what's to say they won't suffer the same fate in 4/8 years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm amazed and delighted by the improvement over the last decade, winning grand slams and being consistently competitive against the SH teams was fantasy not too long ago, both it is left feeling slightly hollow when we consistently fail badly at the top level. This is the fourth world cup in a row where we've come in with justifiable optimism and a team capable of making a difference, and the results have been a pool stage exit, followed by three quarter final defeats by a total of 12, 23 and now 32 points. It's just hard to take.

Won't stop me going through the exact same process in 2023 though.

This is a great post, Just pointing it out.