[RWC2019][Quarter-Final 2] New Zealand vs. Ireland (19/10/2019)

[Leinster Fan]

Looking at the current Ireland Squad and these seem to be the current players who will be there in four years. I'd say anyone at 33-34 is unlikely personally, though possible, so I won't include them. Dunno if there are any obvious injuries off the top of my head. Think maybe somewhere in the back row possibly...
As for younger players who might come through I'm sure our Irish contributors are in a much better position to comment.

Props: Furlong, Porter (Though both a tightheads)
Hooker: Scannell (Haven't seen enough to say he's the permanent solution, but others might disagree.)
Locks: Ryan, Beirne, Henderson, Kleyn (bit of depth here and Beirne can also slot in the back row)
Back Row: Conan, Stander, Van der Flier, Murphy and Ruddock. (All of them will be past 30 here and back row hasn't been hugely consistent for Ireland, so possibility to develop some younger players maybe?)

SH: McGrath (Marmion as well in the wings. However neither have really put their hand up to claim the shirt, potential for someone younger to upset the ranks?)
FH: Carbery, Carty (Again neither has stood up to claim the shirt post-Sexton and Ross Byrne also played in the warm ups. Hopefully competition might be healthy for them.)
Centres: Henshaw, Ringrose, Farrell (If Ireland can have Henshaw and Ringrose fit at the same time and on form they have an excellent centre pairing. This year didn't work out for them)
Backs: Stockdale, Larmour, Conway (Stockdale needs to learn when not to rush up, but attacking wise he's great. Larmour also looks like he'll be very composed at the back.)

So personally out of the current squad you have about 9 key players to develop around. I think SH and FH are a bit up in the air still and maybe have an issue with loosehead props, but as I said it's based purely on current squad.

That's a good assessment. I'd be pretty optimistic about 2023 (already falling into the same traps) there's a talented group of players in the current squad and enough young talent coming through to fill in most of the gaps.

Prop: as you say, potentially an issue at loosehead, all the capped players are 29+, dont think any of them are getting near the next World cup. There are some decent young players around the provinces (especially Ed Byrne and Eric O'Sullivan at Leinster and Ulster respectively) but none of them are future world beaters. There are some very good kids but they're still at schoolboy U19/20 level so too early to tell if there's a solution there really. Hopefully we get another year or two out of Healy while giving time to some younger options and then we can take it from there. Tighthead I'd hope we're sorted long term with Furlong and Porter (who I wouldn't be against moving back to loosehead because I think he's too good to spend his entire career as a backup for Furlong and he's still improving). Nothing special behind those two really but plenty of time for options to emerge.
Hooker: I'd agree with you that Scannell probably isn't a long term solution but he's good enough to hold the jersey down for a few years at the very least. From what I've seen of Ronan Kelleher I'd be confident saying he's Leinster's long term starter, probably won't be making the Ireland squad for another bit but he's very talented, and McBurnie at Ulster is another very strong prospect to keep an eye on.
Lock: I think in an ideal world Ryan is captain next time. Henderson and Beirne should both still be around as well. Dillanne went off the boil badly over the last while but has come back to himself and should put himself in the frame. To be honest I'd hope we can do away with the idea that Kleyn is an international lock, we can do much better. Ryan Baird will hopefully have made the grade by then as well.
Backrow: too many young talents to name, if I try to get them all I'll forget someone so I'll just go with Max Deegan (former world U20 player of the year) and leave it at that. As you say Van der Flier and Conan will still be there, so will potentially Stander. Hopefully Leavy can get back from injury and back to his best, phenomenal player. Overall very excited about this area.
Scrumhalf: nothing amazing, there are the current options who'll be four years older and then Craig Casey who was ridiculously good for the U20s last year and has the talent to be as good as anyone but not much other than that.
Outhalf: I'm a huge fan of Harry Byrne (Ross Byrne's younger brother, very different player). Sexton I think is worth at least keeping around for another while but we do need to be developing multiple potential starters from now on. Ross Byrne is limited but very good and is worth international minutes as well. Carbery is obviously the presumed heir to the throne but we'll see what happens.
Centre: no reason why Henshaw-Ringrose won't still be the best really.
Back three: Larmour will hopefully be a starter from now on, Stockdale can hopefully get his mojo back, Conway is a decent option. Some young talent but no safe bets to be a future international. Adam Byrne I think should be gunning for an international recall but we'll see what happens.

Overall a decent core to build around and a lot of young talent to bring in over the next few years.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

Dagnammit. Where were you during Italy vs Canada? The one poster who I could have lorded it over for my first time on these boards after a "tremendous" Italian victory and you rock up after we've been eliminated?

I need some gloating practice to shake off the decades long rust. Got to get myself in peak condition so I can hit the ground running for the dominant Howley era that awaits us.

I have refused to watch our National team for 2+ years now. Boycotting is the only way that Union and program will change. I also didn't coach this year as Rugby Canada raised dues again and me not paying them coaching dues was my way of telling them off.

Otherwise, Argentina are usually my team but they shat the bed this cup.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It's pretty clear that AB's ball skills, clearing out at rucks and ball retention and speed at executing at pace was a long way ahead of Ireland's. Ireland really couldn't have done much better today even with a full strength side when ABs play at that speed and that level. Even POC said before the game Ireland would much have preferred to face SA with their type of game. Also very natural for the Irish rugby soul searching after such a chastening defeat and the end of this Ireland team under Schmidt/Best.

As an England fan, unless we can overpower the ABs, slow them down and commit very few errors, it's going to be a very long 80 mins next Saturday.

 

[mania]

ABs we're allowed to take control of the game and never relinquished their choke hold.
Ireland fought valiantly but never having the lead they never had scoreboard advantage. Ireland never had a chance to shut shop and strangle the oppn out of the game.
Loved ABs expression. This is how wc knockout should be ; exciting expressive beautiful attacking positive rugby. Awesome balance of defence and offence.
Ireland have struggled this tournament imo. They peaked last year

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I have refused to watch our National team for 2+ years now. Boycotting is the only way that Union and program will change. I also didn't coach this year as Rugby Canada raised dues again and me not paying them coaching dues was my way of telling them off.

Otherwise, Argentina are usually my team but they shat the bed this cup.

I can respect that. I can't find it in me to support my native union either and read some horror stories about the Canadian union. The level of influence unions can exert on the sport is a real hurdle. I hope having a team in the MLR can gradually compel your union to revisit some of their policies.

 

[Larksea]

it sucks knocking Ireland out, in an ideal world I'd have much rather had an AB's vs Ire Final
I hope this rivalry continues but it seems put to bed for now.

Both sides will have very different looks about them next time they line up

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

it sucks knocking Ireland out, in an ideal world I'd have much rather had an AB's vs Ire Final
I hope this rivalry continues but it seems put to bed for now.

We wanna be the best! Gotta choke a while!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

This is why I said earlier is disappointing this was a QF, was hoping if NZ didn't win the cup again it would be someone new and I hoped Ireland would find their #1 in the world form

hopefully this is just your 2007 and your make the changes needed to move your peak to the right point in the cycle

come on Japan!

 

[Leinster Fan]

This is why I said earlier is disappointing this was a QF, was hoping if NZ didn't win the cup again it would be someone new and I hoped Ireland would find their #1 in the world form

hopefully this is just your 2007 and your make the changes needed to move your peak to the right point in the cycle

come on Japan!

2007 was our 2007

 

[Larksea]

This is why I said earlier is disappointing this was a QF, was hoping if NZ didn't win the cup again it would be someone new and I hoped Ireland would find their #1 in the world form

hopefully this is just your 2007 and your make the changes needed to move your peak to the right point in the cycle

come on Japan!

yeah the problem is that in 2007 we kept our coach and captian which was the critical aspect in the fallout of that game which allowed us to grow. plus I believe Ireland have a whole different set of lessons to learn than we had to learn from that result.

 

[mania]

I especially liked the singing during the haka. I hope England do the same

 

[Gena_ZA]

Outplayed, outclassed & brought back to reality
This is the World Cup, this is what counts and only this in 2019
Congrats All Blacks, as I said after this game you would be clear favorites for the ***le again

 

[Zapphod]

Outplayed, outclassed & brought back to reality
This is the World Cup, this is what counts and only this in 2019
Congrats All Blacks, as I said after this game you would be clear favorites for the ***le again

Not sure I agree, I still don't think there is any daylight between NZ, England and South Africa when playing to their potential (not commenting on the Welsh or French as I haven't seen them play top teams recently).
The most dangerous team in the competition in my opinion are the French as they are just so unpredictable, four out of five games they are awful and then all of a sudden they are amazing.

I still don't think South Africa have shown their hand yet and they are the odds on favourites for me.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Rory Best and Joe Schmidt have done a marvellous job for Ireland reflecting on their successes. Credit to them.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Not sure I agree, I still don't think there is any daylight between NZ, England and South Africa when playing to their potential (not commenting on the Welsh or French as I haven't seen them play top teams recently).
The most dangerous team in the competition in my opinion are the French as they are just so unpredictable, four out of five games they are awful and then all of a sudden they are amazing.

I still don't think South Africa have shown their hand yet and they are the odds on favourites for me.

Odds on favourites is a bit much isn't it? We beat them 4 weeks ago... not saying that couldn't be reversed but a final between SA and either England or NZ would be a 50/50 rather than one side being the odds on favourite.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

yeah the problem is that in 2007 we kept our coach and captian which was the critical aspect in the fallout of that game which allowed us to grow. plus I believe Ireland have a whole different set of lessons to learn than we had to learn from that result.

I meant just as a turning point not that it was exactly the same situation

 

[Nubiwan]

Though somewhat similar scores, the England v Oz match felt more of a contest than the Ireland / NZ match ever was.

The questions I have to ask myself is how would yesterday's Irish side done against Australia. Would they have as comprehensively beaten them, at least on the scoreboard? Does England recently clobbering Ireland mean anything? Do England then have enough to thwart the ABs?

Hard to compare recent performances and predict how eitherside will do. What's left is always a gut feeling.

My gut tells me England are short in several departments, in my opinion, and I can only hope I am wrong. Don't think their front row is up to task. The back 5 are physically a decent match. Smith is a miles better 9 than Youngs. So is pj. I am not a Youngs fan anyway. Depending on who is 10, I don't think I'd be concerned for England with either faz or ford. In the midfield, and on the wings, while we might not lack pace and size, it is always the x-factor NZ bring to their game that outdoes their opponent. Support and recycling and offloads throughout the side. We just do not do the right things at the speed of the ABs, so it needs a supreme effort elsewhere to get any joy.

The template would be the boks draw with NZ earlier in the year. England will need to control the tempo as best they can and not get into some Wild West (yeehaw) free flowing game. Go from breakdown to breakdown, be methodical and super accurate. Not be kicking anything too deep (Youngs), and keeping the blacks under constant pressure under the kick, and most importantly, in the tackle and at the breakdown. Defence, defence, defence. Did I mention defence? It also occurred to me that a good dollop of rain would even out such a contest, but not sure if this game is being played under a roof anyway.

England will not be as poor as Ireland, of that I am fairly certain. The ABs looked menacingly accurate tearing the Irish a new one. It will take an accurate England, a somewhat off New Zealand, and a bit of Mother Nature perhaps for the roses to overcome the ABs. Live in hope, but just don't see it. Think the ABs will win by 15 or more. Be very happy England make a good contest of it.

Finally - Let's hope the damn refs don't **** us over with a red. Last thing anyone wants to see is 15 v 14. The last factor that could sway anyone's fortune drastically.

 

[Nubiwan]

My thoughts on the Ireland game was that that was as comprehensive a display as any side needed to come up against to put you in your place. I am left fearing for England.

The proviso would be you can only play the side that is put in front of you, and hard to fault either england or NZ yesterday, but that was one rampant looking black side.

The penalty against the Irish for leading with the shoulder into a ruck only further solidifies my loathing of Nigel "look at me" Owen. If we start penalizing players for flopping on bodies with their shoulders, then we'd be blowing it up 30 or more times a game. It's getting proposterous. Captain Obvious Alert: fellas on the deck in rugby, expect to be hit. And hit hard with boots and or shoulders FFS.

 

[TheOvalBall]

It's been a while since i was so disappointed in a team, like i am with Ireland. They just never pitched up. My great great Irish grandmother is still spinning in her grave. lol

 

[Paulo]

T

One team dominance of a sport not good, just saying.

Then others teams just need to get better. It's like Fed, Rafa, and Joker dominating tennis, it's not her fault no one has gotten good enough to consistently challenge.