[RWC2019][Pool A] Round 1 - Ireland vs. Scotland (22/09/2019)

[Leonormous Boozer]

So a few points;

I have no problem with Scotland players believing they CAN win trophies; what is the alternative? Not believing they can win it. Having read Hogg's comments they are, to me at least, very mild and don't contain any of the bullish claims that are being suggested above.

He didn't go out and say Scotland will win the World Cup or anything like that. However, a lot of the press (inc for some reason a number of the Irish press contingent) seem to jump on what he said as being arrogant or too optimistic. I say Irish press as I've seen it mostly from the likes of Ferris as mentioned above or the 2nd captains lads. The press now appear to search for a quote about Scotland player showing any sort of confidence and ham it up to play into the narrative of "egg on their face", which is a bit frustrating.

So we can say what we currently do, which as above I think is minor, we can say nothing or we can be downbeat. Now with media commitments as they are I am not sure the middle option is feasible, so we're left with either being the stereotypical "dour jocks" or "arrogant and egg on our face" - it's no win really.

And the list of teams you mention could've been a route for Scotland to the final so it wasn't outside the realms of possibility for Scotland to make progress through the tournament.

I agree with you on players backing themselves but accompanied with the Assistant coach fella saying they were going to "smash Sexton" and all that guff it leaves ye open to criticism.

It's always highlighted when someone comes out and says something about the other team in addition to it, Hogg and "the English don't respect us" comes to mind too. It's fairly minor, no idea if it's on the players radar at all but from my perception, and it could be completely wrong that Hogg quote is from 2015, Scotland mess it up a bit more than others.

 

[BobbyM]

This is what Matt Taylor said;

"We did a good a job on [Sexton in February] and I think a lot of teams took a leaf out of our book in terms of getting up and trying to smash him," the coach told reporters.

"He's a brave player, he plays it right to the line. But if he plays right to the line, you tend to smash people and that is what we intend to do.

"They've kept him a bit wrapped in cotton wool over the last period because he has taken a lot of hits and knocks.

"We will certainly be trying to do that to him and they will be trying to do that to Finn as well.

"I love Finn as a player - although Sexton is a very good player. They're quite different types of players. Finn plays things as he sees them, I'd say, while Johnny is a bit more regimented in the way [Ireland coach] Joe Schmidt likes to play.

"We're looking to put a lot of pressure on him like we did last time we played. That's going to be an objective again for us."

I'm actually relatively relaxed again about it. Both teams will target the out halves; I don't think that's hugely controversial. Indeed part of what Ireland did well was targeting Russell and not allowing him the opportunity to be mercurial. Was the Taylor stuff really that bad to people?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

This is what Matt Taylor said;

"We did a good a job on [Sexton in February] and I think a lot of teams took a leaf out of our book in terms of getting up and trying to smash him," the coach told reporters.

"He's a brave player, he plays it right to the line. But if he plays right to the line, you tend to smash people and that is what we intend to do.

"They've kept him a bit wrapped in cotton wool over the last period because he has taken a lot of hits and knocks.

"We will certainly be trying to do that to him and they will be trying to do that to Finn as well.

"I love Finn as a player - although Sexton is a very good player. They're quite different types of players. Finn plays things as he sees them, I'd say, while Johnny is a bit more regimented in the way [Ireland coach] Joe Schmidt likes to play.

"We're looking to put a lot of pressure on him like we did last time we played. That's going to be an objective again for us."

I'm actually relatively relaxed again about it. Both teams will target the out halves; I don't think that's hugely controversial. Indeed part of what Ireland did well was targeting Russell and not allowing him the opportunity to be mercurial. Was the Taylor stuff really that bad to people?

Well yeah, they injured Sexton in February. In light of all the bs about Ireland injuring your players elsewhere, saying that injuring an Irish player was a "good job" and that they were going to "smash him" agian is a bit provocative isn't it?!

 

[bushytop]

I'm not trying to kick you when your down here either, this started with Dave saying how different things being said in the media were lulled him in to being massively hopeful and bushy saying he's a Scotland fan, get used to it!

@ all Scotland fans, yeah I kind of started this without meaning too really.

My advice (for what it's worth) would be to believe you can win things 'in camp' but as far as proclamations... I'd tell the players, coaches and Union to simply trot out the age-old 'one game at a time' mantra.

 

[MikeTheNative]

That's what you expect from Ireland, great defence, clinical and accurate in attack. I don't think it could get any worse for Scotland, hammered, extremely poor and lost Watson and Price to injury.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Well, (sits down next to you, and pours myself 3 fingers as this could be a long one) don't get me wrong, 100 mil invested in the right areas would be a great start but as you say population and continued investment are issues that will pretty much always be around. Similarly in Wales, where our population is about 2 1/2 mil short of the Scots and money is in even shorter supply.

The biggest problem in Scotland is rugby's popularity, although it does seem more popular now than it did about 10 years ago. Rugby didn't used to be particularly popular in Ireland either but fair play to them, they got their house in order across the Irish Sea. Scotland and Wales should really use Ireland as a template (as much as possible, I mean no two countries are identical).

I often play out the mental fantasy of, what would I do if I won the Euromillions lottery (nearly 200 mil tonight folks )... and it's fixing Welsh rugby everytime. The first thing you would have to accept is the possibility of losing that money if you were gonna try and 'fix' things... I personally would happily lose it all if I had a chance of making a real sustainable change.

There'd be absolutely no point in giving the money to the union or the clubs, you'd need to invest in the kids. I'd personally build a few super-colleges, stock them with the finest New Zealand and South African Head Masters and Rugby coaches (as well as high quality teaching staff that covers all of the curriculum) and then fill the things with scholarships. Basically offer today's youth a way out of the poverty that is Welsh Society via a top-notch education... and World Class Rugby education.

Now, 'I ain't no edukator' but it's my 200 mil so, I'll do it my way, I would restructure all (possible) curriculum subjects (Math, English, Biology, physics etc) to 'incorporate' rugby within their learning ie Math problems could be posed as if within a Rugby paradigm:

'If a winger receives the ball on halfway and close to the touch line, while traveling at 'x' and the last defender is 30 metres in field and 5 metres behind the 10 metre line chasing him/her at a speed of 'y' at what point on the field will they meet?'

Now the above is extremely simplified but you get my drift. It would be a tough balance to ensure that both the necessary curriculum is met but also presented in a paradigm that positively affects the child's thinking in regards to Rugby... but that is why I would PAY.

Now there would still be the problem of sustainability as my 200 mil would quickly run out, so you'd have to get 'buy-in' from the National Union, which wouldn't be easy but in my pipe-dream, I eventually win them over just before my pot ran dry .

... and there would probably be like a 1% chance that ANY of this wouldn't actually just evolve into one massive cluster-frikk! I'd have an awesome few years trying to make it work though .

Post of the year right here

 

[bushytop]

Post of the year right here

I always knew I could count on your support UW

 

[Dai Perk]

Now, 'I ain't no edukator' but it's my 200 mil so, I'll do it my way, I would restructure all (possible) curriculum subjects (Math, English, Biology, physics etc) to 'incorporate' rugby within their learning ie Math problems could be posed as if within a Rugby paradigm:

I love the investment idea (and sitting down for a drink), but I doubt you need to turn Math into Rugby Math, might be over-saturation, ya know? I'd wager it's better to feed their little minds with everything BUT rugby in the classroom, since they're living rugby the rest of the day... Plus I have this hilarious idea of retired players being unable to function properly in society, like, "That's 4 pounds 80, sir," "Emm, how many scrums is that?"

I'm not trying to kick you when your down here either, this started with Dave saying how different things being said in the media were lulled him in to being massively hopeful and bushy saying he's a Scotland fan, get used to it!

Ah, the crushing inevitability... it's my new blanket.

Having read Hogg's comments they are, to me at least, very mild and don't contain any of the bullish claims that are being suggested above.

I haven't seen any of his comments, my original comments were about pundits and podcasters, I haven't seen anything from the players... Unsurprisingly, Scottish Rugby doesn't get a ton of coverage in the USA, especially since most Americans would be shocked to hear that WE have a national team...

 

[Leinster Fan]

"We did a good a job on [Sexton in February] and I think a lot of teams took a leaf out of our book in terms of getting up and trying to smash him," the coach told reporters.

He went off injured after 25 minutes and sent Stockdale through for his try while he was on the pitch?

That's an appallingly low standard for a good job, especially when you consider how bad Sexton was in the other games that tournament.

 

[BobbyM]

He went off injured after 25 minutes and sent Stockdale through for his try while he was on the pitch?

That's an appallingly low standard for a good job, especially when you consider how bad Sexton was in the other games that tournament.

So we're now criticising the Scottish defence coach for saying Scotland did something good because the world player of the year was kept relatively quiet. Deary me.

I still don't quite get what seems to be the irritation with what the Scotland assistant coach said. Was it a particularly malicious challenge that led to Sexton going off injured? Off the ball or in the air? From memory it was Sexton took the ball to the line fed an inside pass to Stockdale (for the try) and in the process he was tackled. Ref had no problem with it and there was no citing or such afterwards. I get that Irish fans are sensitive about Sexton so I don't expect a response, but I am still pretty bemused by the wave of negativity about what seems to be fairly bland comments from Hogg. Also, in the context of the full quote, the issue with comments from Taylor where at worst one could say he could have phrased the point slightly differently, but the overall meaning was fairly innocuous.

 

[Leinster Fan]

So we're now criticising the Scottish defence coach for saying Scotland did something good because the world player of the year was kept relatively quiet. Deary me

Was he kept quiet? He came into the game injured, was on the pitch for less than half an hour and he opened the Scottish defense up at least once (maybe more I don't remember the game particularly well).

Just seems like a weird comment is what I'm saying.

 

[BobbyM]

Was he kept quiet? He came into the game injured, was on the pitch for less than half an hour and he opened the Scottish defense up at least once (maybe more I don't remember the game particularly well).

Just seems like a weird comment is what I'm saying.

I think keeping a player who has generally played well against us to one such action is a fairly good return when said player is the world player of the year. I also don't remember any other occasions but I was there and fairly lairy so can't be sure!

 

[Dai Perk]

Wow, I thought that watching my hereditary nation get utterly stomped was bad, but watching my actual national fare even worse against the limeys was even more horrible. Oy. Vey.

 

[bushytop]

Wow, I thought that watching my hereditary nation get utterly stomped was bad, but watching my actual national fare even worse against the limeys was even more horrible. Oy. Vey.

The highs will be worth it Dave... when they happen.

You could have chosen the easy route (& I applaud that you didn't) and 'chose' to support the All Blacks or the Spring Boks... but you've followed your soul and on the odd occasion that everything comes together it'll be worth it.

 

[Dai Perk]

The highs will be worth it Dave... when they happen.

I really had an odd, visceral reaction watching England pump us ... many months ago, I heard the "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" singing during a match at Twickenham, and I asked these forums what that was all about, since it's an American song and all... The English fans were like, "Yeah, we know, but it sounds good and we like it," and I was like, "Fair play."
But then, yesterday, hearing it in the stadium against the USA, I was absolutely incensed, I've never had a feeling like that during a game of any kind. I guess that's what makes it a WORLD Cup, eh? (As opposed to all the sports we play only in the US and then claim to be World Champions)

 

[Rinkadink]

Wow, I thought that watching my hereditary nation get utterly stomped was bad, but watching my actual national fare even worse against the limeys was even more horrible. Oy. Vey.

Limeys = British
Scots = British
Limeys = Scots

Complain about Swing Low if you want, The Star Spangled Banner is a British piece of music so cease and desist.

 

[Dai Perk]

so cease and desist.

(Immediately backs away)
Lol huge burn, I love it. And yeah, I'm shocked to see myself using a term like that, not at all like me, and probably hopelessly outdated at the same time... I can't believe how worked up I got, I gotta get ready for the rest of these matches, geez...

 

[Rinkadink]

I'm glad you're enjoying the world cup.

#RugbyFamily or something trendy