RWC Quarter Final: England - France (08-10-2011, 20:30)

[TRF_Olyy]

Hmm, good and bad

Haskell should be at 7 if not at 8 - Moody has done nothing to warrant his place other than have "Captain" written after his name

Deacon doesn't deserve to start or even bench, but I can understand Lawes being on the bench - however I would have had Shaw starting with Lawes coming on for him
Would have had Waldrom in Deacons place
Banahan almost guaranteed to get game time - probably in the centres too....
Stevens starting over Corbs is an odd one too...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Wayy the bbc got it all wrong. That said, all i got right was palmer in for deacon and easter in for haskell. The latter i find very worrying - i only predicted it cos i know thats what mj is like and keeping haskell out the spotlight makes sense after some of his antics...otherwise though, hes been our best backrow forward for ages and its not particularly 'fair'.

Flood at 12 is brave and smart and i think mj deserves credit for taking a risk we all know he's usually opposed to. But the one change i really thought had to be made hasnt - corbs for stevens.

 

[Duckdee]

Feels like a panicky mess.

 

[j'nuh]

I know MJ has used players who interchange and move out of their traditional roles. Off the top of my head, there's the interchanging 6/7 in the six nations, the in-field wingers, Tindall and Tuilagi swtiching positions in defense/attack, so I'm hoping Flood will interchange with Wilkinson, with Flood coming in-field for attacking moves. If Wilkinson is going to constantly take it into contact, having a 12 who can move into the 10 channel when this happens is a potentially astute move.

I don't know whether this is deliberate or not, because an intelligent coach wouldn't drop Haskell, surely? The only reason I can think of is that his footwork in the scrum hasn't been the best? I don't know? Also: why 2 locks on the bench and no Wood? A Croft Haskell Wood backrow could have been a great one both in the present, and in the future.

So mixed feelings. Glad to see Palmer and Flood back in the starting XV, but upset that Haskell has left and Deacon and Wilkinson have stayed.

Also, given what MJ has said, and the 5-2 bench split, it looks like England could be preparing to play a tight, forwards game. A perfect way of avoiding your team's strengths, I think.

 

[McTallshort]

See the Deacon Bashing has started already!You would think Martin Johnson would know what a good second row looked like but obviously the arm chair commenters on here know better! Not sure about Flood at 12, would have gone for Hape simply for defence as Im not keen on having 3 half backs in such a big channel and think the French backrow will be charging at that all game. My big problem is Stevens at loose head, as he showed last week he is not a loose head and although could cover on the bench cannot do it for 80minutes. Wouldnt it make more sense to start with your 2 specailist props with Stevens on the bench to cover?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What has Deacon done in an England shirt?
In the group stages/the six nations/ever?
He is average at very best - he's anonymous in open play, is inferior to Shaw in mauls/the tight, and is average at best in the lineouts

He's there because he wears a Tigers shirt

 

[McTallshort]

Then Chuter would be there and Flood would have started every game.

 

[JW.]

He's not there because he wears a tigers shirt. MJ likes him somehow but I can't see why, every game England have played well and got fast ball we had Palmer and Lawes on the field. They're so important.

 

[McTallshort]

Romania? Wales 2011? France 2011? Lawes didnt play in any of those games and his form against Argentina was indifferent and poor in the Scotland game. Yes he puts in big hits but the last time I saw him really graft in an international was against Australia in 2010.

Deacon is an easy target but his work rate is high and he grafts at the breakdown instead of looking for the camera pleasing "hit"

 

[psychic duck]

What has Deacon done in an England shirt?
In the group stages/the six nations/ever?
He is average at very best - he's anonymous in open play, is inferior to Shaw in mauls/the tight, and is average at best in the lineouts

He's there because he wears a Tigers shirt

Exactly, TRF_Olyy you're 100% correct again, if he played for a team in the Challenge Cup who is a less fashionable club (e.g. Worcester, Sale, Exeter), then there would be no way he would ever have nearly 30 England caps

if he did play for one of those teams he would be seen as your hard working average club player, like Craig Gillies ,or at most got a cap or two if there was an injury crisis, like Dean Schofield

yet he is so lucky he was born from Leicester as he is no better than players a long the lines of the ones mentioned above, who both probably would have several England caps if they played for Leicester as well

nobody ever talked about Geoff Parling as any more than a good club player until he moved to Leicester, and then he got called up to England Saxons and went on the England tour to Australia in 2010 and played against NZ Maori and Aus. Barbarians, and would probably be an international now if he hadn't got seriously injured

I wouldn't be surprised if when Shaw (38) goes, and Palmer (32) as well, you will see Kitchener/Skivington given more of a chance than other players,

do you remember Nick Kennedy? he got like 6 caps off the bench without doing anything and then was dropped, but Deacon does nothing time and time again and still gets called up

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Then Chuter would be there and Flood would have started every game.

Chuter was there, he just got dropped because Johnson realistically couldn't justify his inclusion whatsoever


Pre-requisites to getting a place in the England XV are:
a) Tigers shirt
or
b) Played with Johnno

Hence Wilkinson starting so much

Romania? Wales 2011? France 2011?

Could you point out anything he did in those matches though?
Playing in a team that won =/= Playing well in a team that won

 

[gingergenius]

he's there because he was MJ's protege at Leicester. Lawes may not have been great last week, but he's class. Deacon is not. Palmer is a quality player. Shaw can be a quality player. Makes sense then, to have Lawes at 4, Palmer 5, and Shaw 18 with Deacon wearing a suit. And as someone who's played rugby for over 15 years, and watched a ****load in that time, I think I have a right to disagree with Johnson, even at 2nd row. Fine I don't see them train, but teams should never be picked on who looks good in training.

Just like I disagree with him about picking Stevens ahead of Corbisiero, disagree with dropping our form back row (Haskell), disagree with not taking a genuine 7 on the plane, disagree with not taking a genuine inside centre at all, am frustrated by the fact that the midfield trio I flagged as the best out of the 30 man squad is only now being tried out in a QF... Johnson's done a lot of good but he could have done a lot better.

And people worrying about defence, Flood and Wilkinson are both excellent tacklers. It's up to one of them, or Tuilagi, to step up and marshall the line in Tindall's place.

 

[Duckdee]

It's actually an anti-Tigers conspiracy! Pick all the players for England, then they can't win the league.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Martin Johnson: Closet Harlequins fan

 

[Izzoard]

Not sure about Flood at 12, would have gone for Hape simply for defence as Im not keen on having 3 half backs in such a big channel and think the French backrow will be charging at that all game.

Tulangi will be in that area and has shown to be pretty good in defence. Wilkinson said in an interview today that he's happy Flood's there as when he's at the bottom of a ruck (i.e. having made another tackle), there's another player who thinks like a 10 still available.

Lets hope it works.

Apparently Flood and Wilko are having a kick-off to determine who'll take the responsibility.

 

[slowprop]

Flood at 12 might turn out to be a good move but surely they should've tried it in one of the group matches first. I guess they are doing something similar to what they did in 2003 with Catt coming into the centre. Gives an extra kicking option and good distribution skills.

Haskell must be feeling agrieved as he's been our best back row for the last year. Although I can see the sense in a specialist number 8. Maybe Moody should've been sacrificed and Haskell been put at 7.

I'm pleased Palmer is getting a start. He looked good last week in both the line out and around the park

Deacon is lucky I'd have gone with Shaw starting with Lawes on the bench. Not sure why he's picked 2 second rows on the bench. Cover for the backs looks light.

Corbisiero is our only specialist loosehead and Stevens does not look at all comfortable there.

 

[Aristodemus]

I have always been happy with Johnson but his selection calls this world cup have really left a bitter taste. What must Wilkinson do to get dropped? Haskell and Lawes too should be in for sure, the decision should have been between Moody and Easter. I still think we can win though, but when we get Wales in the semi we will lose with Wilkinson at FH.

 

[j'nuh]

I have always been happy with Johnson but his selection calls this world cup have really left a bitter taste. What must Wilkinson do to get dropped? Haskell and Lawes too should be in for sure, the decision should have been between Moody and Easter. I still think we can win though, but when we get Wales in the semi we will lose with Wilkinson at FH.

The form second row partnership would be Shaw and Palmer, surely? I think Lawes needs to play his way back into some form. Since coming back from injury, he hasn't been impressive. I'd have started Palmer and Shaw, with Lawes trying to play his way into the XV from the bench.

I'm not a Wilkinson fan, but I can see the positives in this formation. I think we'd get the most out of both players if Flood comes in-field for open play, whereas Wilkinson is on hand for the pressures in tight play. I'd rather we focus on playing an open game, but MJ clearly wants to play this particular game in the tight, and perhaps that would have narrowed Flood's chances to impress.

The only reason I can think of for Haskell to be dropped to the bench is that MJ is more worried about finishing with a strong team rather than starting with one. I'd be more worried (for England) about Easter and Deacon coming onto the field at 50-60 minutes in a tight game, than Shaw and Haskell. That said, I think we're really missing out by not having Haskell running at the French halfbacks.

 

[Saintjay]

Look on the bright side we don't have a nine playing at 10. Let's hope Flood and Wilkinson smash him and the the back three are all over him as well.

I hope we score early and there heads go down. Remember no team has ever won a world cup having lost a game let alone two

 

[j-dawg]

Four years ago I never thought I'd be saying this now; Shaw needs to be starting. Ten times the player Deacon is and far more noticeable. Also has shown the ability to step up for big games.