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RWC: New Zealand - Tonga (09-09-2011, 20:30)

Ali Williams is out, had plenty of chances and hasn't taken them really, other than the 1 game against Aus. I think Williams may have lost out to Whitelock, well, until Boric is back to full fitness, Toeava to either Jane or Dagg, Cowan to Weepu, and SBW won't see any more meaningful action again unless Nonu or Smith are injured. Rest looked alright.

I think this is the only point I disagree with. Weepu is undoubtably leagues ahead of Cowan, but he does seem to play significantly better off the bench, which works out well for the team.
 
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My top NZ team based on what's happened tonight:

1 Woodcock
2 Hore
3 O Franks
4 Thorn
5 Whitelock
6 Kaino
7 McCaw
8 Read
9 Cowan
10 Carter
11 Kahui
12 Nonu
13 Smith
14 Jane
15 Muliaina
16 Mealamu
17 B Franks
18 Boric
19 Vito
20 Weepu
21 Slade
22 Dagg
 
My top NZ team based on what's happened tonight:

1 Woodcock
2 Hore
3 O Franks
4 Thorn
5 Whitelock
6 Kaino
7 McCaw
8 Read
9 Cowan Seriously?
10 Carter
11 Kahui
12 Nonu
13 Smith
14 Jane
15 Muliaina
16 Mealamu
17 B Franks
18 Boric
19 Vito
20 Weepu
21 Slade
22 Dagg

fff
 
I think Weepu provides more spark than Cowan fullstop. Just so happens it's often off the bench but I think he'd still have the same spark starting the game. Be interesting to see who comes out on top in the finals but Weepu has a slight edge on Cowan for the starting spot in the no. 1 team, early on anyways. Cowan should be a bit worried after an average performance and if Weepu starts against Japan and nails it he'll get the start against France.
 
The halfbacks are going to be Weepu and Cowan, and I'd rather have Weepu providing impact off he bench. He's much better at changing a game than Cowan is.
 
The halfbacks are going to be Weepu and Cowan, and I'd rather have Weepu providing impact off he bench. He's much better at changing a game than Cowan is.

We've seen Weepu's starting game against Australia. He was light years ahead of that tonight. There was a couple of attack phases tonight where Cowan was the only man in support inside Tonga's 22. He kept the ball alive when there was no-one there from the forwards. I guess that was forgotten. He wasn't brilliant, but you don't judge someone by their last 3-4 mins.

Also, I agree with Black Heart, Weepu is incredible off the bench. It's his strength and using him that way makes him very dangerous. As for Ali Williams, was he there tonight after his good effort in the haka?
 
I think Weepu provides more spark than Cowan fullstop. Just so happens it's often off the bench but I think he'd still have the same spark starting the game. Be interesting to see who comes out on top in the finals but Weepu has a slight edge on Cowan for the starting spot in the no. 1 team, early on anyways. Cowan should be a bit worried after an average performance and if Weepu starts against Japan and nails it he'll get the start against France.

Weepu's last starter against the Wallabies was poor. The reality is that our 2 best half backs are Weepu and Cowan. Weepu is a more versatile player and plays well off the bench anyway so I'd keep him there for when the going gets tough.

I'd much rather have Cowan play a poor game and have Weepu in reserve than for Weepu to start poorly only to bring on a poorer replacment.

The other point that should be mentioned is that Weepu does a good job at reading the game off the field. He's got a knack of weighing up potential opportunities that can be exploited when he comes on. This further adds to the impact he provides.
 
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My thoughts:Despite talk about how poor NZ's scrum is, it was actually considerably stronger than Tonga's while Woodcock and Owen Franks were on. It started falling to pieces when Ben Franks came on for Woodcock (which is why I think Crockett would have been a good idea, as while both B.Franks and Afoa can scrum on both sides, they're not brillaint. Ali Williams, Ben Franks both looked pretty poor tonight. I thought both Cowan and Weepu cleared the ball far too slowly and Sam Whitelock once again didn't really show much form. Him as a blindside option still scares me. Toeava was 50/50. Touches of magic with his trade mark errors. Never understand why he has handling problems for the All Blacks but when he plays for the Blues at fullback his handling is very good, he seems always nervous. Hosea Gear would have finished his tries...just saying.

In terms of good players, Hore did very well at the breakdown I thought, seemed to have much more of an impact than anyone else. Kahui looked quality on the right wing despite a few errors. I'd still be nervous of playing Dagg in a big game, sometimes he pulls off some brilliance and other times he puts the team under pressure, but overall good game. SBW looked good at 12 despite failing to finish off any tries. Nonu was just class all game and Jerome Kaino was easily the best forward with ball in hand.

The referee was appalling. He wasted so much time, and consistantly played into Tonga's hands. The number of time a Tongan player was down with "cramp" wasted up probably close to 10 minutes and yet he didn't hurry it up untill the last few minutes of the game. The time wasted on scrum resets was appalling. For a start, the All Blacks scrum when Ben Franks was on wasn't brillaint, but half the penalties were guess work and simply wrong. Either award a penalty try or referee it correctly but don't waste 10 minutes on scrum resets. Also there were several rucks and mauls that Tonga set up that had no forward momentum and was not cleared yet he ruled in favour of Tonga, however when the All Blacks set up a rolling maul and it was going forward he'd call "use it". Not to mention some of his joke call on not releasing quick enough, especially when it was fairly quick and Tonga took three times as long. He really ruined this game as a fair contest.

Anyone else think that the opening ceremony was the most pretentious rubbish ever?! God it was wanky. Not being a dick, but I don't think I saw a single white person in the entire thing other than the Canterbury kid, the kid who looked like Peter Pan, John Key and Bernard Lapasset. It showed only Maori/PI culture, which is important but not the entire New Zealand. Wish we copy and pasted Beijing to be honest.
 
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We've seen Weepu's starting game against Australia. He was light years ahead of that tonight. There was a couple of attack phases tonight where Cowan was the only man in support inside Tonga's 22. He kept the ball alive when there was no-one there from the forwards. I guess that was forgotten. He wasn't brilliant, but you don't judge someone by their last 3-4 mins.

Also, I agree with Black Heart, Weepu is incredible off the bench. It's his strength and using him that way makes him very dangerous. As for Ali Williams, was he there tonight after his good effort in the haka?

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me... :/
 
I thought the opening ceremony was incredible, as a feast for the eyes. The commentary was, and always was going to be, a load of crap - but as a spectacle it was fantastic! Beyond the Maori stuff, NZ hardly has a culture, except as a melting pot, so it's doesn't worry me too much.
 
who actually watches opening ceremonies? They're very expensive non-sporting openers to a sports tournament. I don't get them.

Anyway, I'm surprised you Kiwis were so outraged with George Clancy? Didn't you already know he's a ****ing awful ref?

I can't wait for Bryce Lawrence tomorrow. Seriously, what the **** does the iRB think its doing with the refs it promotes? Paddy O'Brien was never good when he was reffing, and he's ****ing shite at organising other refs now he's retired.
 
Anyone else think that the opening ceremony was the most pretentious rubbish ever?! God it was wanky. Not being a dick, but I don't think I saw a single white person in the entire thing other than the Canterbury kid, the kid who looked like Peter Pan, John Key and Bernard Lapasset. It showed only Maori/PI culture, which is important but not the entire New Zealand. Wish we copy and pasted Beijing to be honest.

I have to agree to an extent.

I thought they could have presented a short display of New Zealand's collective heritage and how rugby has evolved and changed the face of this country. In other words, they didn't really show any connection with rugby and New Zealand (other than the kid with the ball which doesn't really support my point anyway)

As for the no-whites thing. I also have to agree. My gf and I are both Maori and even we were saying it was a bit of an overkill. I did enjoy the cultural side of things but they could have made a point that today's New Zealand is made up of several cultures as well as Maori.
 
SBW showed us tonight he thrives in helter skelter type rugby,his style of play won't work against the top teams.Wasn't Soane Tonga'uiha supposed to destory the AB's come scrum time?

Kaino really showed why he is a world class #6 this guy tackled his heart out and the Tongans felt it.

Who the heck is the top back 3 in the AB's Dagg,Kahui,Ice all played well but its Tonga hmm.

Plenty to work on for the AB's but its a start.
 
I have to agree to an extent.

I thought they could have presented a short display of New Zealand's collective heritage and how rugby has evolved and changed the face of this country. In other words, they didn't really show any connection with rugby and New Zealand (other than the kid with the ball which doesn't really support my point anyway)

As for the no-whites thing. I also have to agree. My gf and I are both Maori and even we were saying it was a bit of an overkill. I did enjoy the cultural side of things but they could have made a point that today's New Zealand is made up of several cultures as well as Maori.

It was mentioned in our house too, but very briefly, we mostly enjoyed it a lot. Nobody wanted to take anything away from the polynesian and Maori heritage, but as far as representation goes surely the Maori were here first, then a lot of European and Asian goldminers and pioneers. The Pacific Islanders have been steadily building up in New Zealand for a long time and it's great they are here (wonderful celebrants of this tournament in every way), but for goodness sake it was a PC-fest and by the end I felt like I was supposed to buy a ticket and go back to Denmark where my great-great-great grandparents came from.

Still, could I fault the actual peoples celebrated? Not at all, I was proud of them, but it was a reflection of a few sides of New Zealand, a large slice of the pie that ignored another slice.
 
It was mentioned in our house too, but very briefly, we mostly enjoyed it a lot. Nobody wanted to take anything away from the polynesian and Maori heritage, but as far as representation goes surely the Maori were here first, then a lot of European and Asian goldminers and pioneers. The Pacific Islanders have been steadily building up in New Zealand for a long time and it's great they are here (wonderful celebrants of this tournament in every way), but for goodness sake it was a PC-fest and by the end I felt like I was supposed to buy a ticket and go back to Denmark where my great-great-great grandparents came from.

Still, could I fault the actual peoples celebrated? Not at all, I was proud of them, but it was a reflection of a few sides of New Zealand, a large slice of the pie that ignored another slice.

If it was me (and speaking from an entirly un-artistic point of view) I would have created a display of the merging of all our significant cultures and then shown how rugby and the All Blacks have evolved in our society and how much both of these things mean to us.

I understand why Maori culture was a significant attribute because it is the one thing that is completly unique to New Zealand. I did enjoy the wero concept and I thought the kapa haka side was very powerful but the organisers didn't think much beyond that which was unfortunate.
 
Maori were here first

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people

M
oney Bill Millions had a **** game, and on a whole the only good player was Kaino. Mccaw was out played and Dan Carter looked average. Worrying signs for the first game. You guys need to remember that it's Tonga, not a fully professional team that trains 24/7 like the All Blacks. I thought these professionals were supposed to be the best in the world, instead they were made to look average by an amateur team with day jobs.
 
My thoughts:Despite talk about how poor NZ's scrum is, it was actually considerably stronger than Tonga's while Woodcock and Owen Franks were on. It started falling to pieces when Ben Franks came on for Woodcock (which is why I think Crockett would have been a good idea, as while both B.Franks and Afoa can scrum on both sides, they're not brillaint. Ali Williams, Ben Franks both looked pretty poor tonight. I thought both Cowan and Weepu cleared the ball far too slowly and Sam Whitelock once again didn't really show much form. Him as a blindside option still scares me. Toeava was 50/50. Touches of magic with his trade mark errors. Never understand why he has handling problems for the All Blacks but when he plays for the Blues at fullback his handling is very good, he seems always nervous. Hosea Gear would have finished his tries...just saying.

In terms of good players, Hore did very well at the breakdown I thought, seemed to have much more of an impact than anyone else. Kahui looked quality on the right wing despite a few errors. I'd still be nervous of playing Dagg in a big game, sometimes he pulls off some brilliance and other times he puts the team under pressure, but overall good game. SBW looked good at 12 despite failing to finish off any tries. Nonu was just class all game and Jerome Kaino was easily the best forward with ball in hand.

The referee was appalling. He wasted so much time, and consistantly played into Tonga's hands. The number of time a Tongan player was down with "cramp" wasted up probably close to 10 minutes and yet he didn't hurry it up untill the last few minutes of the game. The time wasted on scrum resets was appalling. For a start, the All Blacks scrum when Ben Franks was on wasn't brillaint, but half the penalties were guess work and simply wrong. Either award a penalty try or referee it correctly but don't waste 10 minutes on scrum resets. Also there were several rucks and mauls that Tonga set up that had no forward momentum and was not cleared yet he ruled in favour of Tonga, however when the All Blacks set up a rolling maul and it was going forward he'd call "use it". Not to mention some of his joke call on not releasing quick enough, especially when it was fairly quick and Tonga took three times as long. He really ruined this game as a fair contest.

Anyone else think that the opening ceremony was the most pretentious rubbish ever?! God it was wanky. Not being a dick, but I don't think I saw a single white person in the entire thing other than the Canterbury kid, the kid who looked like Peter Pan, John Key and Bernard Lapasset. It showed only Maori/PI culture, which is important but not the entire New Zealand. Wish we copy and pasted Beijing to be honest.

well other than the white kid with the ball (the best part of the ceremony), what else could they have shown about white new zealanders that would have made it interesting? Some idiots in black singlets in gum boots dancing to Fred Daggs 'the gum boots song'? that would have been embarrassing. Personally i loved the opening ceremony and loved the angle they put on it which showed NZ's unique culture
 
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Tonga'uiha started the game with a few 2nd string players so cant judge him properly. I think Tonga'uiha wouldve had a better chance with Kisi Pulu, Taukafa, and Timani starting with him. People here seem abit harsh on Ben Franks. Woodcock went up against Filise who is Tongas 2nd or 3rd string TH Prop, while Franks went up against Pulu. What a BEAST Taumalolo proved to be, NZ got the "hit" a few times and Taumalolo still got them going.

Tongas best XV

15. Lilo, 14. Iongi, 13. Fatafehi, 12. Piutau, 11. Vainikolo, 10. Morath, 9. Moa, 8. Ma'afu, 7. Maka, 6. Vahafolau, 5. Tuineau, 4. Timani, 3. Pulu, 2. Taukafa, 1. Taumalolo.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people

M
oney Bill Millions had a **** game, and on a whole the only good player was Kaino. Mccaw was out played and Dan Carter looked average. Worrying signs for the first game. You guys need to remember that it's Tonga, not a fully professional team that trains 24/7 like the All Blacks. I thought these professionals were supposed to be the best in the world, instead they were made to look average by an amateur team with day jobs.
Uh sorry dude. The whole Tongan team that played today are all profesionals.
 

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