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Rugby Europe Championship 2018

I really don't get this, they're mostly Spaniards born abroad...

Spain as a country does not have a strong connection with their migrant populations abroad, unlike the Irish or the Italians.

Lot of people consider them foreigners, even if they have Spanish grandparents, unless they live in Spain for most of their lives.

On the other hand, they are likely to consider Spanish those who are born or raised here, even if their parents are foreigners. But expect them to become 'regular' Spanish within a couple generations.
 
I'd say it must also be related to your own background. As a Spaniard born in a region full of expats, educated in a French school based in Spain, with many teachers called Ruiz o Hernandez in spite of being born in France, and having lived myself in France, I can only support this team.

But if others are from interior regions and have not been in touch with such environments I can totally understand their position.

Regarding the connection with migrants, well, the fact that many of them fled a war and a dictatorship that lasted for 40 years certainly didn't help. But ties are there.
 
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Spain as a country does not have a strong connection with their migrant populations abroad, unlike the Irish or the Italians.

Lot of people consider them foreigners, even if they have Spanish grandparents, unless they live in Spain for most of their lives.

On the other hand, they are likely to consider Spanish those who are born or raised here, even if their parents are foreigners. But expect them to become 'regular' Spanish within a couple generations.

Interesting, you have a FIR badge which I suppose means your support for Italy in 6N (a foreign team) yet you are a Spaniard who don't support players with Spanish heritage born abroad because they are considered foreigners. I am confused!
 
amz, it's not uncommon to see rugby fans in Spain feel close to a 6N team and care less/don't care at all about Spanish rugby. I don't say it's Ainsthrillin case, but it happens. Even some people talking in radio shows about rugby decline to speak about Spain national team and prefer to debate for hours about 6N, Super Rugby, etc, or we see journalists prefering to go to a Tier 1 test match the same weekend Spain faced Canada o Brazil last November.
 
The real test would be if they still do that when Spain are at the World Cup!
 
Interesting, you have a FIR badge which I suppose means your support for Italy in 6N (a foreign team) yet you are a Spaniard who don't support players with Spanish heritage born abroad because they are considered foreigners. I am confused!

Well, I wasn't talking about my beliefs, but others Spaniards' beliefs.

Of course I fully support those players, especially after they have shown so much commitment with the team for the last two years, and last week in Russia. They fight for the Spanish colours bravely, and I can't ask for anything else.

But on the other hand, I think that given the possibility, without losing quality, anyone would prefer to have a team fully raised locally. Even in the greatest football teams, the most loved players use to be those who came from the development teams of the club. In that sense, Giboin (who played for Spain in u20 and I believe u18 as well) is not the same than Fuster, who has just joined the team now.

And I guess that for Italy's fans Parisse, McLean or Allan are not the same than Gower or Haimona, either.

Regarding my support for Italy, which has given me mostly missery, it comes from the previous attempt from the British media to kick them out from the 6N, around ten years ago. Italy answered winning in Murrayfield with three early tries and a desperate defense for the rest the match, and a draw with Wales later on the tournament. And I felt that a team with so much heart, fighting against better teams, and with everybody looking them over the shoulder, deserved my support.

I know that for most supporters of T2 nations Italy is like the protegee of the rugby stablishment, the one tho dethrone, but for me it has always been the first to fight against them and earn its place among them. A representative for countries like Spain which I thought would never be able to reach that stage. In the end, for me they are not so foreigner, in a way.

And they have made enormous efforts to raise local talent. The people saying that Italy do not improve use to be the one forgetting that they bashed them for being a "foreign legion", using it as a reason to remove them from 6N. Now it would backfire with Scotland being as "foreign" as Italy was, so the arguments are different.

Just an example, against England only four starters were not born in Italy: Allan, Parisse, Negri and Budd, and from the bench only Biagi and Hayward (all but Hayward and Budd have at least an Italian parent). Ten to fifteen years ago ago there were matches win only 5 starters born in Italy.

And though I fully support the current Spanish team with all my heart, I hope that in ten to fifteen years we can mantain or even improve their level with more homegrown players, as Italy is doing.
 
I continue to be confused because for Spanish football team played few foreigners and first to come into my mind is Di Stefano but I think was a Hungarian too at some point. Why it isn't the case for rugby?

LE: I just checked, Puskas and Kubala

I an well aware about how Italy's status in 6N is contested by many, British (because of their tribalism) or from T2 countries (for various reasons). I don't think Italy is one to dethrone but to beat T1, this is the only way.
 
amz, it's not uncommon to see rugby fans in Spain feel close to a 6N team and care less/don't care at all about Spanish rugby. I don't say it's Ainsthrillin case, but it happens. Even some people talking in radio shows about rugby decline to speak about Spain national team and prefer to debate for hours about 6N, Super Rugby, etc, or we see journalists prefering to go to a Tier 1 test match the same weekend Spain faced Canada o Brazil last November.

In Spain, with little rugby tradition outside some universities and the Valladolid and Basque regions, playing rugby, watching Tier 1 rugby and watching Spanish NT can be three different and unrelated things.

Lots of people watch 6N like people watch NFL or NHL, foreign sports that are great TV shows but that do not have correlation at home.

In my case, it was first watching 6N, a couple years later trying amateur rugby, and then getting interested in Spanish rugby scene. If I hadn't played, maybe rugby would have been just short term interest, and I wouldn't be here talking about Spanish rugby.

As I said in my previous post, when I started to watch rugby I didn't think that Spain could never be competitive at any level, so I was not interested. It was maybe with Regis Sonnes, the first batches of French players of Spanish ancestry, and some good results, that I started to be interested in the team. Tomorrow I will be at the Central to support Spain.
 
Have fun guys! Two dozens of my friends are in Madrid and have a party right now waiting for tomorrow match while I am fuming home (stuck in Bucharest, can't leave these days).
 
I continue to be confused because for Spanish football team played few foreigners and first to come into my mind is Di Stefano but I think was a Hungarian too at some point. Why it isn't the case for rugby?

LE: I just checked, Puskas and Kubala

I an well aware about how Italy's status in 6N is contested by many, British (because of their tribalism) or from T2 countries (for various reasons). I don't think Italy is one to dethrone but to beat T1, this is the only way.

I guess that the key word is few. Spain football team had quite a bit of them at some point (Puskas, Kubala, Di Stefano was Argentinian...), but after their successes, Spain used to have very few naturalised players. The odd Argentinian or Brazilian, and nothing else.

For this match, only four starters have been born in Spain. Four "full Spaniards", a couple kiwis naturalised via residency, and eleven Frech-born. It is not my case, but I understand why some people feel disconnected from the team.

Nowadays, in football, I can only think of Costa, and the great Marcos Senna in 2008. Thiago Alcantara was born in Italy, from Brazilian parents, but having been raised in Spain through age grades make that nobody consider him a naturalised player.

In other sports, like basketball or handball, there is a similar pattern. An early failing Spanish NT gets vastly improved by some naturalised players, gets some results, raises awareness of the game, and a few years later the level of the local players improves.

I guess that if we get to play the RWC, and considering the incresing number of young players, the level of local might improve as well. Not dramatically, but enough to stablish ourselves in the T2. Especially if British and French clubs start fishing in our u18 and u20 national teams, which are doing well lately.

And I understand that for you beating Italy is like for us beating Romania. The next step.
 
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I really don't get this, they're mostly Spaniards born abroad...

This is likely to be the line up for tomorrow's match

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10 guys have non Spanish last names...Do they have some amount of Spanish ancestry? Perhaps, I don't know.
 
Have fun guys! Two dozens of my friends are in Madrid and have a party right now waiting for tomorrow match while I am fuming home (stuck in Bucharest, can't leave these days).

Tomorrow is going to be a glorious day pushing 20º under the sun, almost like springtime

I hope your friends have fun, enjoy the sunny weather and everything else so much they could bear the defeat weighing on their shoulders on their way back to Romania :D
 
10 guys have non Spanish last names...Do they have some amount of Spanish ancestry? Perhaps, I don't know.
I may be mistaken, but only Linklater (married to a Spanish citizen and first arrived to Spain nearly a decade ago), Snee (who in spite of playing amateur rugby in NZ keeps coming to Spain every winter) and Gavidi (playing for VRAC for the last five years) qualify on residency grounds.

Pinto, Moreno, Barrera, Nava, Anaya and Civil (although his family is mixed and moved to France at a young age) were born in Spain. Rouet brothers, Contardi and Gibouin have Spanish passports, the latter having played for Spain since U18 and holding a passport since he was 5. Auzqui and Visensang had elder brothers who represented Spain.

The rest have all Spanish grandpas or grandmas. And I know it sounds like a bit of self-convincing arguments, but they all lose money or worsen their relationships with the clubs who pay their bills each month to come here, just because they want to play international rugby for the country of their grandparents, and they know which is their background. In the particular case of Charly Malié it is even said that FFR asked why the hell he wasn't eligible, considering he is a French-born regular starting fullback in a Top 14 side (Pau). Well, he had chosen to play for Spain aged only 20 or 21... They don't even do for the money, the money given by FER for each day spent with the national team is miserable.

Beñat Auzqui also had a bit of a 'fairytale' with Spain, Régis Sonnes gave him the chance to play with the national team and then recommended him to UBB to play in Top 14 straight from Fédérale 1. He's so committed and thankful that last year he arrived to play against Georgia only a few minutes before kick-off, after he knew a teammate was injured training the day before.

It isn't the first experience Spain has with French-born players. In fact, many old Spanish players hate this policy because it didn't work well when they were in their prime. But right now, we can't deny it's working and these guys are even more committed than some Spanish-born were not so long ago, regardless of whether we reach RWC or not.
 
Tomorrow is going to be a glorious day pushing 20º under the sun, almost like springtime

I hope your friends have fun, enjoy the sunny weather and everything else so much they could bear the defeat weighing on their shoulders on their way back to Romania :D

Yes they have great fun ;) Some of them are not the first time in Madrid at an Oaks' rugby match
 
Who will win this game ?
SPAIN 44%
ROMANIA 56%

756 votes
 
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