Rugby Championship: New Zealand - South Africa (15/09/2012)

[TRF_Ezequiel]

The vBookie incident is not reversable but I will edit the amounts for all members manually in the next couple of hours.

 

[Darwin]

Oh snap. I have a terrible feeling I messed up the vbookie! This looks even worse that I put vcash on the springboks! Accident I sware! Sorry guys! Is it reversable?

Dare I say it, but you Morne Steyn'd that vBookie Nick

 

[Draggs]

I put something like 1,000,000 on NZ.
Just for the record.

 

[Sker]

Taken from www.sarugby.co.za

"I am very disappointed at the result. We had the right gameplan, we managed to put them under severe pressure. But you have to convert that pressure into points and if we did that, it would have created even more pressure and help us going forward," Meyer said.


wahahahahahaha oh dear oh dear oh dear...

 

[smartcooky]

no Dean Greyling?

Greyling has been cited. I reckon his season is over, he'll get at least two weeks for that act of thuggery

You look at the All Blacks team and they still lack in physicality in the ruck, tackle area and even ball in hand. The All Blacks have three forwards at the moment who usually hit the d-line hard and make the advantage line and that's Read, McCaw and Romano. Kaino was better at it than any of them though during the RWC. We need that. Brad Thorn was just immense when it came to the set piece and especially rucks. The other thing which I think the AB's miss Thorn for is we don't really have an enforcer. Thorn leaving has made McCaw's life a lot harder.

All true, but I recall that both Thorn and Kaino grew into those roles. They certainly were not as immense and imposing at the beginning of their AB careers as they were at the end. That Thorn also re-invented himself as a powerful scrummager is all the more remarkable given that his foundations were firmly set in a game where scrummaging is a glorified group hug.

Players like those don't grow on trees; they are moulded by experience. You may be able to replace the raw physicality of Thorn and Kaino with players like Romano, Retallick and Messam, but you won't get the savvy or nous on when to use it and how to apply it. That only comes with time on the jersey at that level.

IMO, Messam has been like the "Mathew Sinclair" of NZ Rugby. He might be experienced at Super Rugby level, but his All Black career has been on-again off-again; he has never really been given the consistent match-after-match time to settle into his role. For all Graham Henry's excellent coaching and management, I think he has not done Messam any favours by treating him this way.

 

[Draggs]

Greyling: Idiot, deserves a ban.

Have to love Keo, just a few weeks back it was "Steyn is our best option, quite bashing him"...

 

[smartcooky]

Greyling: Idiot, deserves a ban.

Have to love Keo, just a few weeks back it was "Steyn is our best option, quite bashing him"...

I used to frequent Keo because I wanted to get a purely South African perspective on things. I pretty quickly worked out that all I was getting was the rabid, "the-world-is-in-a-conspiracy-against-us" South African perspective.

If you want to get real, commonsense opinion from South African posters on South African rugby, THIS is the place to be!!

 

[Sker]

Agreed Cooky.

Trust me you can be glad you didn't see the comments on the sport24.co.za site. Oh wow, it makes me lose all faith in humanity. How can people be so... damn stupid?!

 

[voiceofreason]

I thought Francois Louw was rather good, but unfortunately for him just showed why we need Brussouw even more. Coetzee made a difference when he came on, and even though Duane was better this week, he still imho was rather non existent. The only thing that made less sense than Lambie coming on so late, was the fact Mtawarira went off so soon, and allowed that thug to come on. Even though I wish Etzebeth was there, i thought all the locks stood up and played well. Strauss's throwing was poor, and his general play was quite.

JDV has gone from ''intercept king'' to quickly become the invisible king, we sure he has played the last few games? The less said about Morne, the better. Goosen immediately made a impact, despite being bumped off by Nonu. He added much needed pace, and landed a big penalty later on. HAS TO START. Habana had a good game, and scored a great try. Hougaard was decent, but he can only do so much with such little ball. Pienaar was slow, inaccurate and just pretty poor overall. I would be very tempted to give someone like van Zyl a run, or even as much as my fellow Sharks fans despise him, Charles McLeod. I honestly feel for Lambie, the dude cannot just get a decent run.

The sad reality is I honestly think we can be the best in the world, we just need to start kicking less, and picking the right players.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

All true, but I recall that both Thorn and Kaino grew into those roles. They certainly were not as immense and imposing at the beginning of their AB careers as they were at the end. That Thorn also re-invented himself as a powerful scrummager is all the more remarkable given that his foundations were firmly set in a game where scrummaging is a glorified group hug.

Players like those don't grow on trees; they are moulded by experience. You may be able to replace the raw physicality of Thorn and Kaino with players like Romano, Retallick and Messam, but you won't get the savvy or nous on when to use it and how to apply it. That only comes with time on the jersey at that level.

IMO, Messam has been like the "Mathew Sinclair" of NZ Rugby. He might be experienced at Super Rugby level, but his All Black career has been on-again off-again; he has never really been given the consistent match-after-match time to settle into his role. For all Graham Henry's excellent coaching and management, I think he has not done Messam any favours by treating him this way.

I agree and hope that they do grow into those type of players as we need them when we play the Boks.

As for Henry and Co not doing Messam any favours, it goes both ways. When playing for the All Blacks you have to perform when given your chances, if you dont you get dropped and there is always someone to take your spot. Didnt help having players like Kaino, McCaw, Read, Thompson, Lauaki, Sooialo, Vito, Latimer, etc competing for those spots.

 

[Larksea]

Messam did have a bit of A quiet game though watching him it was easy to see why. he was constantly in the right place on defence in the line but the bok attack seemd to condstantly go other side of the ruck or wide of him. May not have been a case of the boks avoiding him but as he was close ot the rucks maybe they were targeting someone else. I dont think it's a big deal, Read and McCaw had had quiet tests this year.

If I had any selection related questions about players in that game the first guys on the list would be firstly weepu who I thought was pretty poor then maybe Jane who's been great under the high ball and he's finished well a couple times this year but overall over a number of games he's been quiet and Dagg has kinda been a one man band in the back three.

I know I'm a one eyed ben smith fanboy but all that asside I think he's done more with his limited chances than Jane, Gear, Savea have done with their much more substantial gametime. I dunno what he has to do to get a break. I wonder if he is seen more than anything else as fullback backup, I just see more workrate and his his classy running game as a better package than what Jane and Savea are producing right now.

Lineouts were pretty good from the AB's to get about 4 steals of bok ball is a pretty good effort - slightly better showing from whitelock. Romano and Retalick good again. Also thought the AB's had a bit of an edge in the scrums as well.

Dont think anything needs to be said about the boks kicking game, you would have thought they would figure out early that getting into a game of force back with Israel Dagg was a bad idea but they kept at it and it kept hurting them.

McCaw was superb, absolutely brilliant. so was dagg and Aaron smith was fairly impressive obviously that try of his was superb. Bit better from Nonu. Ok but quiet from conrad.

win is a win and denying the bonus point was a nice touch, rugby championship pretty much in the bag. has not been fantastic watching though. I guess that is because maybe teams going up agains the AB's are putting a high focus on defense and slowing the rucks down. turns into fairly messy games.

 

[kusta]

Just heard Dean Greyling got suspended 2 weeks!

That's just a slap on the wrist! That guy should've been suspended til next year!! Useless don't even know why he was even put onto the field let alone selected

 

[William18]

Yeah, what a joke! Considering the head butt last week was two weeks. The two things are not equal.

 

[Tony Manx]

Yeah, what a joke! Considering the head butt last week was two weeks. The two things are not equal.

Totally agree.................despite the victim being McCaw!!! That aside, it was a cowardly and ridiculous piece of violent conduct and a 6 month ban would not have been out of place.

I though Clancy, and I am NOT a fan, had a good game yesterday and was prepared to bring the AB's to task for a change!!

 

[madflyhalf]

Just watched the 1h summary of the match and there is an outstanding picture of the last month for Springboks.

At sometime in the 2nd half, McCaw missed a high ball and an industrious Habana collected it and set up a ruck 30m from the ABs try line.
As a turnover with no defence the Springboks realised they need to spread the ball away quickly to find space and attack from a great position in a great situation, so Kirchner act as 9 and clear the breakdown/ruck.
Morné Steyn recived with 3 men outside him and 2+1 defenders in front of him, and he didn't even pay them a glance, just kicked awfully for the corner, in the pocked behind the previous ruck.
Dagg (?) collect with almost no pressure and kick it back easily.
The Bokke have a lineout 10m inside their own half.


"We had the right game-plan"???? :huh:

 

[Larksea]

this is definitely one of those games where the springboks should not come out and say they have faith in their gameplan, really it was their gameplan that let them down. Bit shocked after the game to hear them saying that.

They should be running the ball and trying to draw the All Blacks forward on defense, what they are actually doing is kicking when the AB's have 3+ guys back covering for kicks, and kicking to Dagg is epic fail. he's got an epic sized punt, even under pressure.

 

[smartcooky]

Just heard Dean Greyling got suspended 2 weeks!

That's just a slap on the wrist! That guy should've been suspended til next year!! Useless don't even know why he was even put onto the field let alone selected

Worse yet, its really only one week as there is no match next weekend, so he'll be clear to play the the return clash against NZ in three weeks time.

From iRB regulation 17 Appendix 1
[TEXTAREA]When is the iRB going to wake up to the fact that bans need to be for matches and weeks!!
10.4(a) Striking another Player with a hand, arm
or fist
LE – 2 weeks
MR – 5 weeks
TE - 8+ weeks
[/TEXTAREA]

I find it difficult to believe that this was a Low End offence, so he has got at least three weeks off for an unspecified combination of mitigation, remorse or clean record.

IMO remorse should carry very little weight. Its too easy to be sorry after the fact, and its too easy to fake.

 

[Larksea]

stupid, would have thought that was worth 6 games, not just 1.

 

[Darwin]

stupid, would have thought that was worth 6 games, not just 1.

I agree with everyone here - 2 weeks (1 game!) doesn't seem enough for me, but let's be honest, consistency has never been a strength of rugby's judicial system...

Totally agree.................despite the victim being McCaw!!! That aside, it was a cowardly and ridiculous piece of violent conduct and a 6 month ban would not have been out of place.

I though Clancy, and I am NOT a fan, had a good game yesterday and was prepared to bring the AB's to task for a change!!

Not sure I agree with that. Though I thought he did a good job of making sure tackler (and the tackled player) released at the breakdown, meaning the breakdown was generally a fair contest, his ruling of the offside line was poor at best. Both teams were guilty of being miles offside at the breakdown, which made it very difficult for either team to attack. If I recall correctly, he didn't blow a single penalty for offside the entire game, and by the end of the match both teams knew they could basically be defending in the oppositions backline and get away with it. I feel if he had actually enforced the offside law we would have had a much better game of rugby!

Just watched the 1h summary of the match and there is an outstanding picture of the last month for Springboks.

At sometime in the 2nd half, McCaw missed a high ball and an industrious Habana collected it and set up a ruck 30m from the ABs try line.
As a turnover with no defence the Springboks realised they need to spread the ball away quickly to find space and attack from a great position in a great situation, so Kirchner act as 9 and clear the breakdown/ruck.
Morné Steyn recived with 3 men outside him and 2+1 defenders in front of him, and he didn't even pay them a glance, just kicked awfully for the corner, in the pocked behind the previous ruck.
Dagg (?) collect with almost no pressure and kick it back easily.
The Bokke have a lineout 10m inside their own half.

"We had the right game-plan"???? :huh:

I do think some aspects of the Boks game plan were correct, but as you (and others) suggest many aspects of the game plan plainly just don't work. The Boks mauling was particularly impressive, the defense was solid, the big ball runners were effective, and some of the territorial kicking was very good (though less effective against the AB's than the Wallabies, as we have a fullback with a massive boot!). The clueless kicking away of the ball when on attack is the main thing they need to cut out of their game. To me they seem to lack patience on attack. If they don't break the line after 2-3 phases they kick the ball away - if they actually held the ball for longer they may actually have a chance of breaking the line. I do think Pienaar's habit of slowing down any quick ball they happened to get does make it much harder for the Boks though (just as the AB's find it much harder with Weepu at 9) - either they need to change halfbacks, or get Pienaar to speed up his delivery!

 

[voiceofreason]

How does the guy only get 2 weeks? Such inconsistency, the fact Etzebteh gets 2 weeks for nothing, and Greyling gets the same for pretty much striking someone.