Rugby Championship: New Zealand - Argentina (08/09/2012)

[TRF Mr Fish]

Highlight for me was Messam's juggling skills.

 

[smartcooky]

Anyone out there still think Argentina doesn't deserve to be in this competition.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Didn't see the game but ARG didn't allow NZ to go for a high score ad they squeezed in a try themselves.

 

[Shaggy]

Great match ... me thinks the Australian forward pack are going to get found out by that Pumas pack, and the backs are going to find it difficult against that defense.

The All Black made a lot of mistakes again, but i'm pleased that they wore down the Pumas, and were able to cash in late in the game.

I think both of the starting locks plated well, and Whitelock might struggle to get his starting spot back

 

[marianodan]

Good result, though a bit angry about all those silly penalties in attack. Hope they won't happen so often in Australia.

 

[smartcooky]

Great match ... me thinks the Australian forward pack are going to get found out by that Pumas pack, and the backs are going to find it difficult against that defense.

The All Black made a lot of mistakes again, but i'm pleased that they wore down the Pumas, and were able to cash in late in the game.

I think both of the starting locks plated well, and Whitelock might struggle to get his starting spot back

What pleased me most about the ABs was the ability to change to game plan "B" when it became clear that Plan "A" wasn't working. You could see the game turning early in the second half, and it was only a matter of time before they broke the Argies

Liam Messam was immense when he came on for Vito. He appeared to make it his personal responsibility to straighten the attack and get the AB's over the gain line. I'd love to know what his running metres were. Id be surprised if it was less than 30.

 

[Darwin]

Well, we won. Not the most convincing effort, but a win is a win I suppose. The weather certainly didn't help us, and those pesky Argentine players kept tackling us and putting under pressure too, which wasn't very nice

We didn't play to the conditions in the first half, and that really cost us. When we started to take a bit more care of possession in the second half, and (equally importantly) started running straight and hard, we looked far more threatening. Our front row was solid, and probably had the edge at scrum time when they weren't getting free-kicked for going early. Both locks were good. Retallick had a massive work-rate and was very effective with ball in hand, while Romano was very effective in the lineout though did get nailed a few times by the Argentine defense. McCaw was the pick of the starting loosies for me - he was great with ball in hand, and was his usual self at the breakdown. Vito and Read were pretty quiet, but (as SmartCooky mentioned) Messam was immense when he came on - he has certainly nailed down the AB's 6 jersey.

Aaron Smith was ok, but the weather conditions didn't suit his style of play. He really needs to learn to vary the pace of the game, as he is very one-paced - while this is fine in an open expansive game, in a tighter game like this you need to be able to slow the game down at times. Incidentally Weepu did this superbly when he came on (indeed he made a great impact in general) - perhaps the AB's selectors knew what they were doing in keeping him around! Cruden was very quiet (though his pass for Jane's try was superb), and though Conrad Smith was solid (and did brilliantly to setup Savea's try) he looked a bit rusty in my opinion. Nonu really had a game of two halves (like the AB's). His handing was poor in the 1st half, but he was great in the second half, breaking tackles at will at times. Jane and Dagg were both very good in the conditions, and Savea was particularly impressive. I think he clearly deserves the 11 jersey against South Africa next week, as he looked so much more dynamic than Gear has in recent weeks.

 

[Gena_ZA]

What I like about Arg rugby is the simplicity - there is a ball, play towards it.
NZ definitely not as invincible as most made them out to be, myself included

 

[admartian]

What I like about Arg rugby is the simplicity - there is a ball, play towards it.
NZ definitely not as invincible as most made them out to be, myself included

Then you, and many others have mistakenly underestimated the Pumas.

They are excellent on D, and have a good forward pack. I've said it before, people expecting them to lose by 20+ points definitely have tunnel vision on the game of rugby.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

after watching this game i'm worried about the wallabies v argentina. the argies looked like a formidable opposition to the all blacks this evening.

have to say the all blacks missed sbw though.

 

[Colombia]

The fact that we, a nation who's national past time revolves around lads kicking a ball, can get a decent kicker, is simply mesmerizing.

Great kickers, just not at goal. The banana-kick was outstanding (Hernandez?). Need to start Bustos Moyano.

 

[Helmut83]

Anyone out there still think Argentina doesn't deserve to be in this competition.

Nope... no one.

 

[petite]

Some views on the game:
Nonu don´t try to attack from your own 5 yard line.. not any more. you were underestimating pumas defence. SA did the same thing: not going for an easy early penalty and go, instead to atack from a line out (twice) that may have been the reason why they didnt win.
No one is talking about Farias sin bin WTF did he do. i don t even saw a penalty. both A.B trys were done when arg was playng with 14 players
why the hell did phelan change roncero and leguizamon. they where having a good game. specially roncero after them and figalo where repalced our scrum was finiched this two factors where determinat for the final result.
i m not sayng we lost because of that, the ABs would have win it either way. but i think may be we could have come closer in the score board.
ive never seen the all blacks make so many handling errors!! i think the rain helped the pumas by slowing a bit the ab pace.
greetings.
Ps 2 penalty kicks hitting the posts in the same game??? defently unusual match
sorry for my sprelling and confusing grammar

 

[smartcooky]

No one is talking about Farias sin bin WTF did he do.

Intentional knock-forward. He deliberately batted a pass down.

He is very lucky that Poite didn't award a Penalty Try..he could have!

[video=dailymotion;xtep6p]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xtep6p_cabello-intentional-knock-forward_sport[/video]

Juan Farias Caballo bats the ball down with his right hand as Cory Jane passes it

Ignore the commentators, they are wrong (as usual) .. Poite doesn't say "early tackle". Fernandez Lobbe tries to argue that Caballo's action was part of the tackle, but Poite says .."no, he didn't tackle"

There was a two - one overlap outside with the line a few metres away, so it could have been a penalty try.

Also, an Argentinian player (Santiago Fernandez?) comes in from an offside position and picks up the ball after Caballo knocked it.

 

[petite]

Intentional knock-forward. He deliberately batted a pass down.

He is very lucky that Poite didn't award a Penalty Try..he could have!

Ok
But 2 things! isnt it a matter of interpretation whether he did it intentionally or not? lets say it is intentional.. is it allways punished witn the sin bin? or just because it was an infraction in a clear try situation? think it would have been better for us if he awarded the penalty try..

 

[big ginger 8]

Ok
But 2 things! isnt it a matter of interpretation whether he did it intentionally or not? lets say it is intentional.. is it allways punished witn the sin bin? or just because it was an infraction in a clear try situation? think it would have been better for us if he awarded the penalty try..

It wouldn't have been one or the other it would have been a yellow card or a yellow and a penalty try.

 

[smartcooky]

Ok
But 2 things! isnt it a matter of interpretation whether he did it intentionally or not? lets say it is intentional.. is it allways punished witn the sin bin? or just because it was an infraction in a clear try situation? think it would have been better for us if he awarded the penalty try..

A penalty try for intentional foul play is almost always accompanied by a yellow card anyway...

[TEXTAREA]LAW 10.2 UNFAIR PLAY
(a) Intentionally Offending. A player must not intentionally infringe any Law of the Game, or
play unfairly. The player who intentionally offends must be either admonished, or cautioned
that a send off will result if the offence or a similar offence is committed, or sent off.
Sanction: Penalty kick
A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise
have been scored. A player who prevents a try being scored through foul play must either
be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.[/TEXTAREA]


I any situation where a team is desperately defending their line, I would always expect an intentional knock-forward by a defender to be a yellow card.

 

[petite]

A penalty try for intentional foul play is almost always accompanied by a yellow card anyway...

[TEXTAREA]LAW 10.2 UNFAIR PLAY
(a) Intentionally Offending. A player must not intentionally infringe any Law of the Game, or
play unfairly. The player who intentionally offends must be either admonished, or cautioned
that a send off will result if the offence or a similar offence is committed, or sent off.
Sanction: Penalty kick
A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise
have been scored. A player who prevents a try being scored through foul play must either
be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.[/TEXTAREA]


I any situation where a team is desperately defending their line, I would always expect an intentional knock-forward by a defender to be a yellow card.

Ok the rule is clear!! but do you agree with the reff that was intentional? im not so sure.. in slow motion looks like it is, but at normal speed looks more lake he´s trying to intercept the ball. youre totally right about santi ferandez it was penalty anyway. what an ass him leaving the field was the knock out punch

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

He sticks out one hand in a very odd way that could not be interpreted at an attempt at an intercept. When first seeing it I wasn't sure if it was intentional, but the slow motion replay made me pretty certain it was intentional.

 

[William18]

The yellow card was well deserved for me. It looked clearly intentional and the Jane try was scored when Argentina were back to 15 men. I think the tries would have come anyway. We had a terrible game plan in the first half and tried to be too expansive. In the second half we knuckled down, played a lot more sensibly and started to dominate.

So that's three games into The Rugby Championship, three poor performances but we are easily top of the table. The way we are playing we are definitely there for the taking. I thought Aaron Smith was bloody terrible. His option taking was absolutely pathetic and put us in a lot of trouble at times. Weepu was a lot better when he came on. The good thing about Smith is that his pass is always going to be quick no matter how well he plays but he needs to work on the other areas of his game. Messam also was immense when he came on but I thought Vito was okay. Most of the forwards were hardly brilliant but the lineout worked well. I thought Romano and Retallick were two of our best forwards. Most of the backs were okay. Cruden didn't get many chances, Conrad was rusty. I thought Savea was good and he has earned a start against South Africa. Nonu was poor in the first half but in the second he showed why I believe that he is a far better player than SBW. He started breaking the tackles and getting over the advantage line.