Rugby Championship: Australia - South Africa (08/09/2012)

[nickdnz]

Don't get me started on Joe Rokocoko, the man would walk into my AB's starting XV today. With any luck, Bayonne will scare him back to New Zealand where the Blues will sign him up on the left wing!

 

[Draggs]

Don't get me started on Joe Rokocoko, the man would walk into my AB's starting XV today. With any luck, Bayonne will scare him back to New Zealand where the Blues will sign him up on the left wing!

He didn't score a try in the Top14. He was moved to outside centre near the end of the last season.

 

[Darwin]

Don't get me started on Joe Rokocoko, the man would walk into my AB's starting XV today. With any luck, Bayonne will scare him back to New Zealand where the Blues will sign him up on the left wing!

Walk being the operative word

(you know, as he is sooooooooo slow these days.....)

 

[TRF_heineken]

Draggs, why so much scepticism about the team?

I honestly think we are much stronger both in the forwards and in the backs.

I won't say we should write off the Argentina draw, as both New Zealand nor Australia has played against them. So while it was a poor performance, the measurement of the match and the teams are still unknown.

With Pienaar at scrumhalf, We'll get quicker ball, for both our Strong Runners as well as the backline. And with Australia picking a rookie wing and an off-form Beale, it could be a very long day at the office for Australia's back 3.

I think South Africa will win this game and score at least 3 tries.

 

[Darwin]

Draggs, why so much scepticism about the team?

I honestly think we are much stronger both in the forwards and in the backs.

I won't say we should write off the Argentina draw, as both New Zealand nor Australia has played against them. So while it was a poor performance, the measurement of the match and the teams are still unknown.

With Pienaar at scrumhalf, We'll get quicker ball, for both our Strong Runners as well as the backline. And with Australia picking a rookie wing and an off-form Beale, it could be a very long day at the office for Australia's back 3.

I think South Africa will win this game and score at least 3 tries.

I agree that South Africa are stronger in the forwards (in most aspects), but I think Australia are better in the backs. Over the last few years every time South Africa and Australia have met we always seem to get told that South Africa will win as they will 'beat them up in the forwards', but Australia have had the edge over South Africa in recent years - indeed they have won the last 4 games between the two teams, and 6 out of the last 7! I usually subscribe to the theory that if you win the battle up front you win the match, however this doesn't seem to apply to Australia vs South Africa matches....

I think South Africa have a clear advantage in the front row. I'm not a massive fan of J du Plessis, but he has been solid this year, and Benn Robinson hasn't looked the same player since his knee injury last season. Likewise I think Mtawarira has a clear edge over Alexander, who is good in the loose, but is a weak scrummager (especially at TH prop!). Australia have a slight edge at hooker, but this isn't enough to overcome South Africa's edge in the props. I think the locks are evenly matched around the field, but South Africa look like they will have an edge at lineout time (as Timani isn't really an option here). Timani has really proved me wrong so far, and his battle with young Etzebeth (who I really rate!) will be good to watch. Sharpe certainly has the edge in experience over Kruger, but Kruger has looked very comfortable at test level thus far.

It is hard to say who has the edge in the loose-forwards - South Africa have by far the better ball runners, but I think Australia (read: Hooper and Gill) are going to destroy South Africa at the breakdown. I quite like Dennis, though he has been pretty disappointing at test level thus far I think his style of play is just what the Wallabies need out of their blindside flanker. Alberts has surprised me somewhat at test level - I'm still not convinced he has the work-rate/accuracy for test rugby, but there is no doubt he can make an impact with ball in hand (and on opposition ball runners!). I really rate Vermeulen, and though Samo has been solid off the bench in recent weeks, he is still an old man who wouldn't be playing test rugby if Australia had any half decent number 8's available. As I've mentioned, the breakdown is one area where Australia have a massive advantage. While I like Coetzee, he is no way an openside flanker, while Hooper is probably as good as any 7 on the planet at pilfering the ball (with the possibly exception of Liam Gill, who is on the bench!). I think South Africa are making a massive mistake by not starting Louw, but I guess time will tell....

I think Australia have a clear edge in the halves. While I do think Pienaar in the right choice at 9 for South Africa, Genia is in another class (best 9 in the world in my opinion). Steyn and Cooper both have well documented strengths and weakness - who has the edge here really depends on which Quade Cooper turns up!

I think the centres are pretty evenly matched. F Steyn hasn't really looked his best, but he has been solid (literally ), while de Villiers has also been pretty solid at centre. As I have mentioned before I don't think Barnes is the right player to partner Cooper, but he is generally pretty reliable (if overly conservative), while it is good to see Ashley-Cooper back playing in his best position for a change!

I give Australia an edge in the outside backs, though not by much. Ioane is a massive threat (as always) - I would be surprised if Cooper doesn't send a few cross-kicks in his direction this week. I'm a massive fan of Hougaard on the wing, so his battle with Ioane will be great to watch. On the other wing Habana faces Shipperly. Though Shipperly is on debut I expect he will be a good match for Habana. He is a very reliable player, and I don't expect he will be overawed at this level. He has plenty of pace, and certainly seems to know his way to the try-line. Beale has been decidedly unimpressive recently, while Kirchner has actually played quite well - however if I had to chose between an out-of-form Beale and an in-form Kirchner I would pick the out of form Beale (as long as he doesn't have a complete shocker like in the first AB's test!).

Overall I expect it will be a very tight match - I'm picking Australia by 5 based largely on their home advantage, and the fact I think they are going to completely dominate at the breakdown.

 

[nickdnz]

He didn't score a try in the Top14. He was moved to outside centre near the end of the last season.

I know. Trust me. I know. Doesn't help moving him to centre, he's a left winger. It's where he scoed tries. Almost all of his tries are from the left wing. That being said, Bayonne are a shambles of a team. If he played for Toulouse I bet he'd be a major star again.

Walk being the operative word

(you know, as he is sooooooooo slow these days.....)

Stop perpetuating these lies. He runs the 100m in under 4 1/2 seconds! And when I'm done with Wikipeida, this will become fact. In seriousness I still think he's very quick. Watching him in Bayonne (through nefarious means) he's had little game time, been moved to centre and never gets the ball. He's become the ultimate scape goat for a terrible team. With any luck he'll come back to NZ or at least play for a better team in the T14, doubt he'll get offered a new contract and the fans of Bayonne hate him.

OT

Not sure who will win this one. I think it may be a close game but I'm ganna go with South Africa. Just. Australia just didn't look creative at all against NZ, while South Afirca has never looked creative and relied on their big, bashing ball carriers and their tactical kicking game. The Irony is that Australia has been uncreative and dynamic in their last few games, using one off runners from the ruck, while South Africa just got bet up in the forwards against Argentina with Steyn having an average day with the boot.

 

[psychic duck]

I know. Trust me. I know. Doesn't help moving him to centre, he's a left winger. It's where he scoed tries. Almost all of his tries are from the left wing. That being said, Bayonne are a shambles of a team. If he played for Toulouse I bet he'd be a major star again.


Stop perpetuating these lies. He runs the 100m in under 4 1/2 seconds! And when I'm done with Wikipeida, this will become fact. In seriousness I still think he's very quick. Watching him in Bayonne (through nefarious means) he's had little game time, been moved to centre and never gets the ball. He's become the ultimate scape goat for a terrible team. With any luck he'll come back to NZ or at least play for a better team in the T14, doubt he'll get offered a new contract and the fans of Bayonne hate him.

I think you are generous in your assessment of Rokocoko there, he has been incredibly awful for Bayonne. Regardless that Bayonne are a poor team or what position he is being played in, Rokocoko is being paid a lot of money by them and in return is jogging around the pitch and making handling errors most times he gets the ball. I watched Bayonne vs Stade Français a couple of weeks ago, and Rokocoko's biggest contribution to the match was needlessly charging into a ruck and conceding a penalty.

He also has had plenty of game time, played in all of Bayonne's matches this season and most of last season when he was available, and is still yet to score a try in 16 matches. And the position excuse does not hold up, he has played most at left wing for Bayonne. Whilst he would certainly have scored some tries with Toulouse, I doubt he would be a major star.

For an example of Rokocoko's awfulness for Bayonne, go to 1:40 on the video below.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs8ne4_j15-bayonne-bordeaux-begles-20-27_sport?start=5

Curiously Rokocoko wasn't the only former All Black to have been poor for Bayonne, Sione Lauaki was a lazy, butterfingered player for them who never bothered working hard in defence, rucks etc and was only ever bothered to ball carry (which most of the time he dropped the ball). Tialata also hasn't won rave reviews in Bayonne, although Mike Phillips seems to be doing quite well for them.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

 

[Icemn]

Draggs, why so much scepticism about the team?

why still ask? its obvious... Lambie is not in the starting 15... as simple as that...

now if lambie started and the rest of the teams was cr@p.. he would have been a happy chappie

 

[Draggs]

why still ask? its obvious... Lambie is not in the starting 15... as simple as that...

now if lambie started and the rest of the teams was cr@p.. he would have been a happy chappie

You've got me!

I just see South Africa has having so much potential that isn't being utilised.
I do think this side is stronger than last week. As I have had, I will reserve judgement on Meyer until 2013, after he has had a bit more time in charge.

 

[nickdnz]

I think you are generous in your assessment of Rokocoko there, he has been incredibly awful for Bayonne. Regardless that Bayonne are a poor team or what position he is being played in, Rokocoko is being paid a lot of money by them and in return is jogging around the pitch and making handling errors most times he gets the ball. I watched Bayonne vs Stade Français a couple of weeks ago, and Rokocoko's biggest contribution to the match was needlessly charging into a ruck and conceding a penalty.

He also has had plenty of game time, played in all of Bayonne's matches this season and most of last season when he was available, and is still yet to score a try in 16 matches. And the position excuse does not hold up, he has played most at left wing for Bayonne. Whilst he would certainly have scored some tries with Toulouse, I doubt he would be a major star.

For an example of Rokocoko's awfulness for Bayonne, go to 1:40 on the video below.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs8ne4_j15-bayonne-bordeaux-begles-20-27_sport?start=5

Curiously Rokocoko wasn't the only former All Black to have been poor for Bayonne, Sione Lauaki was a lazy, butterfingered player for them who never bothered working hard in defence, rucks etc and was only ever bothered to ball carry (which most of the time he dropped the ball). Tialata also hasn't won rave reviews in Bayonne, although Mike Phillips seems to be doing quite well for them.

He was relegated to the bench quite a bit last season (I know, I put myself through watching every televised game avalible). It's fair enough you think I'm being overly generous, but I think Rokocoko's high expectations is the reason why he's getting such a hard time. Cedric Heymans has been equally woeful to be honest. I was reading an article in an NZ Rugby World magazine, which had an article called Bayonne Hell. Interestingly it interviewed Heymans, Phillips and Lovobavu all of whom thought the criticism was very harsh and hard to take, praising Rokocoko's professionalism and effort to the club. I don't think he's being lazy. I certainly agree he's not doing enough to get the ball in space, but I rarely see the ball get passed the centres. Not to pass the back too much, but the number of different coaches also doesn't help. I can't help but feel he's getting very similar criticisms to Rico Gear and Chris Latham when they went up to Worcester.

As for Lauaki, he's always had poor handling (the reason why he was dropped from the All Blacks after one of the worst games ever by an All Blacks against Aus). He was considerably better for Clermont, but I think his usually poor work rate was only made worse by the fact he had kidney problems (thus retiring from rugby).

View attachment 1899

And how f*cking dare any one out there make fun of Joe, after all he's been through. He lost his All Blacks spot, he was in a breastfeeding commercial, he moved to a crappy French club, the owner turned out to be an idiot, and now he's not scoring tries. All you people care about is tries and making money off of him. HE'S A HUMAN!!! *weeps* What you don't realize is Joe's making you all this money and all you do is write a bunch of crap about him. He hasn't scored a try in years. His kids name is Cypress, becaus all you people want is Cypress, Cypress, Cypress, CYPRESS!!! LEAVE HIM ALONE!!! YOUR LUCKY HE EVEN PERFORMS FOR YOU B*STARDS!!! LEAVE ROKOCOKO ALONE! Please! *sobs*. psychic duck talks about professionalism saying if he was a professional he woulda pulled it off no matter what. Speaking of professionalism, when is it professional to public bash wingers who are going through a hard time?! LEAVE ROKOCOKO ALONE, PLEASE!!!*full out crying now* Leave Joe Rokocoko alone RIGHT NOW! I Mean it! Anyone who has a problem with him, you deal with me! Because he's not well right now! *biggest cry yet* Leave him alone...

 

[Icemn]

You've got me!

I just see South Africa has having so much potential that isn't being utilised.
I do think this side is stronger than last week. As I have had, I will reserve judgement on Meyer until 2013, after he has had a bit more time in charge.

when it all comes down to the game plan... so the game plan actually select the type of players... i can't see a fetcher so its "stampkar" rugby again...

lambie is too creating for this team, so its actually better if he is on the bench, a game plan the boks execute with actually make a guy like lambie look pretty weak

 

[SomeOke]

when it all comes down to the game plan... so the game plan actually select the type of players... i can't see a fetcher so its "stampkar" rugby again...

lambie is too creating for this team, so its actually better if he is on the bench, a game plan the boks execute with actually make a guy like lambie look pretty weak

I have to agree with you. I just don't understand the decision to not start flow.
What are you gaining by effectively having that extra ball carrier? As opposed to the loss of one of if not the most important areas in world rugby; the breakdown.

It's been been a problem area for us since the World Cup basically but the message just isn't getting across, both for the occasional game saving turn-over and for a dedicated loosie to hit the rucks I just don't get it.

As for the team it looks better than it has in a while and I am optimistic that we could win, but I certainly don't think it's the likely outcome. That's not me being unpatriotic I love the Bokke to a painful level at times it's just being realistic. If Michael Hooper plays half as well for the Wallabies as he did for the Brumbies we're in trouble. If Genia and Cooper manage to reach any sort of understanding like they can do we're in trouble. If Morne continues his current trend we're in trouble.

 

[Darwin]

Moore ruled out for the Wallabies, with Polota-Nau coming in at hooker. While the Wallabies don't lose that much with Polota-Nau starting at hooker (as he and Moore are of similar quality in my opinion), they will miss Polota-Nau's ability to make an impact from the bench, as Fainga'a is not in the same class....

 

[Feicarsinn]

I agree that South Africa are stronger in the forwards (in most aspects), but I think Australia are better in the backs. Over the last few years every time South Africa and Australia have met we always seem to get told that South Africa will win as they will 'beat them up in the forwards', but Australia have had the edge over South Africa in recent years - indeed they have won the last 4 games between the two teams, and 6 out of the last 7! I usually subscribe to the theory that if you win the battle up front you win the match, however this doesn't seem to apply to Australia vs South Africa matches....

I think South Africa have a clear advantage in the front row. I'm not a massive fan of J du Plessis, but he has been solid this year, and Benn Robinson hasn't looked the same player since his knee injury last season. Likewise I think Mtawarira has a clear edge over Alexander, who is good in the loose, but is a weak scrummager (especially at TH prop!). Australia have a slight edge at hooker, but this isn't enough to overcome South Africa's edge in the props. I think the locks are evenly matched around the field, but South Africa look like they will have an edge at lineout time (as Timani isn't really an option here). Timani has really proved me wrong so far, and his battle with young Etzebeth (who I really rate!) will be good to watch. Sharpe certainly has the edge in experience over Kruger, but Kruger has looked very comfortable at test level thus far.

It is hard to say who has the edge in the loose-forwards - South Africa have by far the better ball runners, but I think Australia (read: Hooper and Gill) are going to destroy South Africa at the breakdown. I quite like Dennis, though he has been pretty disappointing at test level thus far I think his style of play is just what the Wallabies need out of their blindside flanker. Alberts has surprised me somewhat at test level - I'm still not convinced he has the work-rate/accuracy for test rugby, but there is no doubt he can make an impact with ball in hand (and on opposition ball runners!). I really rate Vermeulen, and though Samo has been solid off the bench in recent weeks, he is still an old man who wouldn't be playing test rugby if Australia had any half decent number 8's available. As I've mentioned, the breakdown is one area where Australia have a massive advantage. While I like Coetzee, he is no way an openside flanker, while Hooper is probably as good as any 7 on the planet at pilfering the ball (with the possibly exception of Liam Gill, who is on the bench!). I think South Africa are making a massive mistake by not starting Louw, but I guess time will tell....

I think Australia have a clear edge in the halves. While I do think Pienaar in the right choice at 9 for South Africa, Genia is in another class (best 9 in the world in my opinion). Steyn and Cooper both have well documented strengths and weakness - who has the edge here really depends on which Quade Cooper turns up!

I think the centres are pretty evenly matched. F Steyn hasn't really looked his best, but he has been solid (literally ), while de Villiers has also been pretty solid at centre. As I have mentioned before I don't think Barnes is the right player to partner Cooper, but he is generally pretty reliable (if overly conservative), while it is good to see Ashley-Cooper back playing in his best position for a change!

I give Australia an edge in the outside backs, though not by much. Ioane is a massive threat (as always) - I would be surprised if Cooper doesn't send a few cross-kicks in his direction this week. I'm a massive fan of Hougaard on the wing, so his battle with Ioane will be great to watch. On the other wing Habana faces Shipperly. Though Shipperly is on debut I expect he will be a good match for Habana. He is a very reliable player, and I don't expect he will be overawed at this level. He has plenty of pace, and certainly seems to know his way to the try-line. Beale has been decidedly unimpressive recently, while Kirchner has actually played quite well - however if I had to chose between an out-of-form Beale and an in-form Kirchner I would pick the out of form Beale (as long as he doesn't have a complete shocker like in the first AB's test!).

Overall I expect it will be a very tight match - I'm picking Australia by 5 based largely on their home advantage, and the fact I think they are going to completely dominate at the breakdown.

Edgy post bro.

 

[Draggs]

Edgy post bro.

Aye, Darwin is a sharp one.

 

[admartian]

I think if the Boks employ the rush defence of the Jake White days, they can stifle Quade's space and confidence. But in doing so, leaves gaps for Genia. So they need to have man- to -man coverage on Genia at all times I reckon.

Otherwise, I think the Boks forward pack has more intensity than the Wallabies. Boks by 7 or more.

 

[Darwin]

Edgy post bro.

The fact you went through my entire post just to highlight the word edge shows just how much you love me (lots and lots ). You did miss one though - dare I say it, but you may be losing your edge!

By the way how is that fantasy rugby team of yours going Feic? It must be very strong to be propping up the rest of the table!

Aye, Darwin is a sharp one.

 

[Draggs]

The fact you went through my entire post just to highlight the word edge shows just how much you love me (lots and lots ). You did miss one though - dare I say it, but you may be losing your edge!

By the way how is that fantasy rugby team of yours going Feic? It must be very strong to be propping up the rest of the table!

OK, just wanted to make my point.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

The Kiwis will be watching with interest on how the Boks perform against the Wallabies as it does indicate what changes the Boks may have made and whether or not the draw against Argentina was just a bad day at the office. This will be a great game to watch thats for sure


Personally I would love to see Morne get injured before next week so that the Boks have to play Goosen against Cruden for the AB game - Now that would be mouth watering stuff as these two would arguably be the two most exciting players behind SBW.

On a seperate note I love the great posts that are on this message board but I have to say that the size of the advertising and the size of the pics that the posters put on actually take away from the website - as you usually ony get about 8 posts per page