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Road to Lions 2017

Jbobo

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I was reading through some threads earlier and it got me thinking, who would currently be in the driving seat if the Lions were to take place next year say?

Firstly, I know this could be a useless exercise in practice but in theory it is the same discussion we will be having at a constant rate following the World Cup next year so why not start early eh?

I’m interested to hear people's thoughts on this and see their prospective squads based on what they have seen since the last lions Tour. But further, I just want to hear people’s opinions on the tour in general. Topics such as -

So, what is your current Lions XV assuming everyone is fit?
What is your current All Blacks Squad assuming everyone is fit?
Which players will still be in contention?
Which strategy and selection of players would best challenge the All Blacks specifically and visa versa?
Which All Blacks will still be around, and who replace those who are not?
How will each team fare?
Basically, anything loosely Lions’y in content is welcome to discussion and will ‘arouse’ this man’s interest greatly :D
 
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Basically, anything loosely Lions'y in content is welcome to discussion and will 'arouse' this man's interest greatly :D

Aside from the fact that last statement worries me.......:eek:

I'll put forward one name.

George North. (If fit, he's pretty much the only 'shoe-in' that I can think of atm)
 
If I was picking my Lions XV for next year.

15. Brown
14. Bowe
13. Davies
12. Roberts
11. North
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Morgan
7. Armitage
6. P. O'Mahony
5. O'Connell
4. Lawes
3. Wilson
2. Hartley
1. Healy

16. Best
17. Marler/Mako
18. Corbs
19. AWJ
20. Warburton
21. Care/Laidlaw
22. Farrell
23. Halfpenny

I left out some like SOB as I don't know how injury will heal and have Farrell ahead of Ford as he covers 10&12.
Hogg and Tuilagi along with few more are unlucky but we'll my idea could change tomorrow but I reckon that team would attack them up front with the back 3 being top counter players ie that's my reasoning for Brown at 15.
 
I mean, North will probably be around in 2017. But if you were picking the Lions now/next year, North has just been dropped by Wales for his poor performances and May is going from strength to strength. Easy call to make tbh.

I'm gonna refrain from picking a full team because I haven't seen a lot of Ireland/Scotland recently. But for 2017:
4. Launchbury 5. AWJ
Gives me tingly feelings.

Also:
1. Healy 3. Cole 17. Corbs 18. Lee
Hells yeah.
 
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I mean, North will probably be around in 2017. But if you were picking the Lions now/next year, North has just been dropped by Wales for his poor performances and May is going from strength to strength. Easy call to make tbh.

I'm gonna refrain from picking a full team because I haven't seen a lot of Ireland/Scotland recently. But for 2017:
4. Launchbury 5. AWJ
Gives me tingly feelings.

Also:
1. Healy 3. Cole 17. Corbs 18. Lee
Hells yeah.

As I say I could change fast. I think North is a big time player and I'd always back him. I like May but just alike North more. If it was in 2017 I'd see AWJ being the leader of it. Always put himself, POC and BOD in a special bracket
 
Good call. As it stands, AWJ would be my choice for tour captain. My dark horse contender would be Sexton.

That said, if Gatland is in charge again, Warburton will (c) the tour, I guarantee it. :p (Bad news for SO'B...) Always thought that AWJ should have been given the Wales captaincy though.
 
The way to beat the ABs probably won't change in the next two years and it starts with butchering them at the breakdown and at the coalface and giving them as little workable ball as possible. The next step is a suffocating defence that will ensure most of the good ball they do get dies somewhere in midfield. Then you try and score some points - which, hopefully, shouldn't be too hard if you're winning up front and have plenty of athleticism. When I talk about the coalface, I probably won't bother too much about the set-piece, as unless things change (or we get a dream unit together) we're not going to smash them there and I don't think we're going to get smashed either - but I do think a well oiled maul could pay huge dividends.

The coach I'd pick for that would be Schmidt, on the general principles of I'd pick him to do anything in rugby. Something might happen to change my opinion there, but I really doubt it. His assistants are "Whoever the hell he thinks he'll work well with" but for obvious reasons, it'd be good if one or two came from outside the Ireland camp and/or had prior Lions experience. Hypothetically, a team of Schmidt, Easterby, Rowntree and Edwards covers those bases - although it would be interesting to see if Schmidt feels like teaming up with Cotter again. Speaking selfishly, a summer of no Andy Farrell would be nice for England.

Player wise, at loosehead, you're probably looking at the English and Irish incumbents. Age and experience are on their side compared to the Welsh and Scottish, who will either be getting too old for such capers, or be rather short of know how. Shame, as it would have been made for Jenkins. Happily, people like Healy, Corbs, Marler and McGrath are what we want - they scrum well, they get around the field well, they tackle well. Wouldn't be looking at a barrelling impact sub like Vunipola for this.

Hooker's complicated - Best, Hibbard and Lawson will be (probably) too old for it, while Dylan Hartley is too much of a stupid pillock and will surely only get himself suspended if picked, which he shouldn't be, as he's a stupid pillock. Lets say one of them lasts and is in contention, while Ken Owens is obviously also in contention. There's a good argument for guys like Tom Youngs and Sean Cronin - throwing won't be a huge issue if you have a strong mauling game, and they get around the pitch well. Really like Webber too, and he can definitely perform against NZ. But then there's plenty of room for a youngster to bolt considering how shaky it all is.

Tighthead is an area which I think might be dominated by younger players. I mean, who's out there in the position who's really convincing who'll be in their prime then? Maybe Cole, maybe Wilson. Nope - the future is now; Ireland have Furlong and Moore, Wales have Lee and Thomas, England have Brookes, Wilson and Sinckler, Scotland, have, erm... anyway, we're teeming with young props, no point speculating too much further at this stage.

Lock will be insanely, insanely competitive. I don't think anyone would complain of the quality if we simply sent the current English first choice (granted, Parling will be a little old for it), yet there's so many great choices - there's the good Gray, AWJ, Toner, Davies, Gilchrist, Ball... plus another four or so locks us English think would work well for the national team if a gap ever opens up. I saved my favourite name for last though; Henderson is insanely quick for a lock and offers real physicality. Hopefully he'll learn to call lineouts so I can see my dream pairing of Launch-Henderson. That's the sort of athleticism we'll need if we're to keep up with them.

Reason I mentioned him there rather than at blindside is that I think we'll either want just insanely quick blindsides (i.e. Croft) or breakdown nuisances. Robshaw and O'Mahony would be a decent start at such a genre. Lydiate too I guess, so would Tom Wood in form. Smash options such as Burgess or Denton, I just don't see being as effective for the Lions come that time.

Openside - take the fit 3 out of O'Brien, Warburton, Tipuric and Henry; I'd love to believe an English option would breakthrough and establish their international credentials in time, but lulz no, while Scotland seem even more wedded to converted blindsides than us. Guess Dan Leavy deserves a shout as a potential bolter, particularly if O'Brien remains easily broken, but that's v speculative.

8's difficult, particularly as they'll be needed to contribute big style in defence, but will have to carry hard if you've got an undersized blindside. This far out I'd pin my hopes to Ben Morgan - or maybe mention Denton and Burgess again. Actually between Denton, Beattie and Ashe, this might be Scotland's best hope of a shirt. Billy needs to up his game. Heaslip will be pushing it slightly for age, although not that much; I'm more against him because he carries like a big girl's blouse. In theory I'd happily play Faletau but can't remember his last impressive game, but then haven't been keeping up great with Wales.

9 - Conor Murray, pray for competition

10 - Jonny Sexton, pray for competition

Wing - who cares as long as one of them can tackle Savea, they lose/gain form so readily that it's really dumb to call them this early. Obviously my hopes for Schmidt means a big emphasis on wingers who are good in the air and work hard.

Inside-centre is pretty difficult to call, as no one knows who Ireland or England will be playing then. The guys we can point to as being likely contenders - Roberts, Dunbar - are pretty bloody big, which is tricky, as you're looking for someone to (potentially) play with Tuilagi, which means ideally a distributor, or the wings become a little pointless. There are potential distributing options, but who knows whether they'll be demanding attention - or, heck, play Tuilagi there, and look to well renowned distributors Davies, Henshaw and Bennett... hmm. Also, it has to be pointed out that the centres are the one area where NZ are likely to change a lot, so who knows what they'll be looking like? In any case, there's so many potential options for both positions, I'd struggle to say much about which ones I'd want. My lulzy centre combo would be Olding-Slade, but I guess it's more likely that we'll get 2 big 12s, 1 10/12, Manu and a jinkier 13 option. Mindyou, if Tuilagi passed better, Schmidt would totally play Roberts-Tuilagi in a heart-beat. I'd also point out that centres who can actively add to the breakdown would be great.

Full-back - Halfpenny, Kearney, Watson/Nowell. Brown's getting on, Hogg's too flaky, I don't see any potential Irish bolter getting enough time off of Kearney and Liam Williams is too much of a Hartley.

NZ's biggest concerns will be a reliable replacement for Carter, a new centre-partnership, and some sub props who wouldn't struggle to make the Australian team (yeah I went there). I suppose their back-row could use freshening up, but they spawn back-rows with such regularity that one merely assumes it will happen. Persuading SBW to stick around could, imo, be a big thing for them as elsewise I'm not sure their backline will be physically threatening anyone. Fekitoa is a big boy, but he's not a Nonu.
 
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Coaching:

Head Coach: Gatland
Attack & Analysis: Scmidt
Defence: Farrell or Kiss
Forwards: Rowntree

Really simple here, the best way for us to compete against New Zealand in 2017 is to head out looking to blow them away physically upfront, they won't be but if we don't head out with that mentality of bringing the utmost intensity it just wont' happen.

Current Team for me would be:

15: 1/2/Hogg
14: Bowe (will be 32 though so may be Cuthbert or Seymour)
13: Tuilagi/Dunbar
12: Roberts/Burrell (i can't think of anyone else
11: North/May
10: Sexton/Farrell (though Russell is shaping up very well and if he continues his arc could be a bolter)
09: Murray/Webb
08: Morgan/Vunipola/Heaslip
07: Warburton/Wood
06: Peter O'Mahony/Robshaw
05: Berry/POC
04: AWJ/Lawes
03: Wilson/Lee/Cole
02: Hibbard/Hartley Ford
01: Corb/Healy/????
 
Whatever happens it'll always be a great NZ side we play, so I don't want to look to far than to simply play the best players with the largest skillsets really. I wouldn't want us to be limited to a style of play.

Head Coach: Schmidt
Attack: Cotter
Defence: Kiss
Forwards: Rowntree

1. Healy/Marler/Corbs
2. Hartley/Youngs/Ford (Hibbard has tailed off for me)
3. Wilson/Cole/Lee
4. Lawes/AWJ/Toner
5. Launchbury/Jonny Gray
6. O'Mahony/Robshaw
7. O'Brien/Tipuric/Warburton
8. Morgan/Faletau/Vunipola
9. Murray/Youngs
10. Ford/Biggar/Russell (I think Sexton might suffer from injuries post world cup)
11. North/May
12. Roberts/Bennett
13. Tuilagi/Dunbar/Henshaw
14. Zebo/Watson/Cuthbert
15. Hogg/Halfpenny

None of that in any particular order at all to what they'd choose. But just a guess.

AWJ/Warburton/O'Mahony/Marler/Robshaw as captain options.
 
I doubt Robshaw will be captain... AWJ i can see. Don't think Warburton was the right decision last time, but if Gat's i can see why.
 
If garland is coach then the team will be full of average Welsh players again.

It should really be a mix of the best from each county. I'd pick a lot of Irish players to be honest
 
Head Coach: Joe Schimdt
Attack: Rob Baxter/Alex King
Defence: Edwards/Farrell
Forwards: Graham Rowntree

Loosehead- Corbisiero/Healy/Marler
Tighthead- Cole/Brookes/Wilson (I haven't seen enough of the Welsh guys)
Hooker- Ford/Webber/Hartley
Locks-Attwood/Bury/Lawes/AWJ/Toner
Blindsides-POM/Robshaw/Ewers
Opensides-O'Brien/Warburton
Number 8- Morgan/Ashe/Heaslip
Scrum Half-Murray/Care/Laidlaw
Fly Half- Sexton/Ford/Biggar
Inside Centre- Roberts/Eastmond
Outside Centre-Tuilagi/Burrell/Davies
Wings-North/Cuthbert/May/Bowe
Full Back- Kearney/Halfpenny/Brown
 
If we are talking about 2015 then POC would be a definite but if 2017 would guys like Burgess and Watson (who's improving fast) be options?
 
If garland is coach then the team will be full of average Welsh players again.

It should really be a mix of the best from each county. I'd pick a lot of Irish players to be honest

Oh didn't realise Judy was going to be coaching ... <_<

Last time I checked ... under Gatland we actually won a Lions series.
 
Oh didn't realise Judy was going to be coaching ... <_<

Last time I checked ... under Gatland we actually won a Lions series.
That required a huge amount of luck and really should have been a whitewash, Gatland was the right and only choice last time and, to be fair, got the job done but it was a pretty forgettable tour. I reckon Schmidt and Cotter will be in the driving seat in two years time, they're both better coaches and don't live off controversy which can lead Lions tours to disaster. Whoever of the two of them take it will likely be the next coach of New Zealand.
 
That required a huge amount of luck and really should have been a whitewash, Gatland was the right and only choice last time and, to be fair, got the job done but it was a pretty forgettable tour. I reckon Schmidt and Cotter will be in the driving seat in two years time, they're both better coaches and don't live off controversy which can lead Lions tours to disaster. Whoever of the two of them take it will likely be the next coach of New Zealand.

Doesn't matter. Gatland still led a victorious Lions tour, only forgettable for some because of the man in charge. I highly doubt he will be there in 2017 mind.
 
Doesn't matter. Gatland still led a victorious Lions tour, only forgettable for some because of the man in charge. I highly doubt he will be there in 2017 mind.
If anything I'll remember it as Gatland's tour but that's neither here nor there.

Back on topic I think the captain will be AWJ or O'Mahoney, there's a severe lack of good players who are at Lions level that are captain material, these are the only two possible nailed on starters that could captain right now.
 
If we are talking about 2015 then POC would be a definite but if 2017 would guys like Burgess and Watson (who's improving fast) be options?

dont mean to poke a hornets nest but from what I have seen in the eurpoean games POC has played in I would not have him anywhere the lions team on current form.
 

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