RBS 6 Nations - Ireland vs Wales - (05/02/2012 -15:00)

[coonor]

Like I said before we lack a game plan which is a worry. I think we need to have a good look at ourselves as I really think this game has shown us where the true problems lie. As individuals Ireland's players arguably had better games than Wale's and thats why they do so well in the H-Cup because they are comfortable with the style each club plays but for Ireland these players seem to not play together all with the same focus. Its like they have been told to do something that although they can do well they are not comfortable with. We won't be able to beat New Zealand until we find a gameplan that works and who knows when that will be.

 

[Peat]

As I say I'm an optimist and I'll stand by what I've said I could well be proven horribly wrong but it's the type of match we are suited for. I said for months Ireland would beat Australia and nobody believed me yes they lost 3 key players and are not quite as good as N.Z. but something similar could happen. Peat have you seen Cronin play this year not exactly lacking oomph... also N.Z. don't exactly have a backline of Wales' gargantuan proportions and there is nothing wrong with picking that backline as long as your smart and stick to their strengths.

Again ever the optimist.

I said reliable oomph, which currently disqualifies him Plenty of oomph though, if he gets his basics right he's going to push Best very, very hard, as for all his good qualities and cracking form he's nowhere near the carrier Cronin is. Likewise, I believe that once he's proven himself Tuohy will be very hard to ignore from an Irish perspective, as he's another superb carrier and ball-handler.

As for the backline - no one has a backline like the Jolly Red Giants, but the lack of size has cost Ireland against other opponents (notably France) and offers no ready outlet and go-forwards ball. It's a problem, and I don't think it's a coincidence that every other backline in international rugby can point to some very large, physical men. It makes life far more difficult than it need be.

I admire your optimism, but think its a tad blind here.

 

[big ginger 8]

Like I said before we lack a game plan which is a worry. I think we need to have a good look at ourselves as I really think this game has shown us where the true problems lie. As individuals Ireland's players arguably had better games than Wale's and thats why they do so well in the H-Cup because they are comfortable with the style each club plays but for Ireland these players seem to not play together all with the same focus. Its like they have been told to do something that although they can do well they are not comfortable with. We won't be able to beat New Zealand until we find a gameplan that works and who knows when that will be.

Hence me saying with the right gameplan.

Peat
"I said reliable oomph, which currently disqualifies him Plenty of oomph though, if he gets his basics right he's going to push Best very, very hard, as for all his good qualities and cracking form he's nowhere near the carrier Cronin is. Likewise, I believe that once he's proven himself Tuohy will be very hard to ignore from an Irish perspective, as he's another superb carrier and ball-handler.

As for the backline - no one has a backline like the Jolly Red Giants, but the lack of size has cost Ireland against other opponents (notably France) and offers no ready outlet and go-forwards ball. It's a problem, and I don't think it's a coincidence that every other backline in international rugby can point to some very large, physical men. It makes life far more difficult than it need be.

I admire your optimism, but think its a tad blind here."

Fair enough about the reliability noticed it after posting. Just because everyone else is doing something doesn't mean it's right (almost like 1984 just because one man thinks differently does that make him insane different circumstances though obviously.) as long as we're smart and "swift of thought and deed" (jeez thats a weird thing to say) we can do well. No point arguing about it now I guess. May as well wait till closer to the time...like tomorrow.

 

[Bluemoon]

I think Gatland needs to tread dalicately with Cuthbert. Should he get another chance next week against lesser oppositon (no offense intended), or should he be left out because of that one defensive lapse? He doesn't make a good bench option.

If the lasp that everyone who is referring to was the best try I think everyone should watch it again. Phase beforehand, both Priestland and Cuthburt were screaming for support as there was a 4 on 2 over lap. Ireland recycled quickly. Priestland missed the tackle, leaving Cuthburt dealing with a 2 on 1, in which he could do very little. He did come up early once previous to this aswell but nothing drastic.

Other than that he had a nice clearance kick out of hand, a couple of tackles and did look to get on the ball.

I'd keep him in again for Scotland, they will kick and having two giants either side will be useful. Dropping him now would be a mistake.

 

[coonor]

Hence me saying with the right gameplan.

My point is when will we find that game plan and can it be consistently executed at international level? The reason Ireland are frustrating is that they have the ability which was shown in their performances against England and Australia last year but we fail to put in these performances consistently.

 

[munstermuffin]

Regards Irish complaints:
Lads we can make excuses and name our solutions but at end of day Wales beat us because we simply weren't good enough. Maybe as a national team we over-hype ourselves and well it just simply we never do put consistently high-level performances together.
If you are a serious international team then an under-strength Welsh team at home shouldn't be a problem and add in Priestland (pulling the strings at 10) was awful for them in fairness.
Yes we were missing O'Driscoll but being honest he doesn't have long left at this level and that is a tiring excuse.

 

[big ginger 8]

My point is when will we find that game plan and can it be consistently executed at international level? The reason Ireland are frustrating is that they have the ability which was shown in their performances against England and Australia last year but we fail to put in these performances consistently.

I think a lot of that's down to having one of the most constricting coaches in world rugby.

Regards Irish complaints:
Lads we can make excuses and name our solutions but at end of day Wales beat us because we simply weren't good enough. Maybe as a national team we over-hype ourselves and well it just simply we never do put consistently high-level performances together.
If you are a serious international team then an under-strength Welsh team at home shouldn't be a problem and add in Priestland (pulling the strings at 10) was awful for them in fairness.
Yes we were missing O'Driscoll but being honest he doesn't have long left at this level and that is a tiring excuse.

In this thread one person has offered O'Driscoll's absence as a possible excuse and that was apprehensively. Everyone even me admits Wales were better today.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think a lot of that's down to having one of the most constricting coaches in world rugby.



In this thread one person has offered O'Driscoll's absence as a possible excuse and that was apprehensively. Everyone even me admits Wales were better today.

Meant it as it isn't an excuse never said people are using it. My point is simply on BOD - we now know Earls is International class but at 11/14, McFadden isn't International class centre, O'Malley is untested and simply we can't execute the right gameplan and maybe in Green we are overhyped.

 

[Conal]

since we can't get a grandslam i say screw the last huzzah of the old guard

doc darcy no longer starting

phase out poc tuohy, toner ryan for the 2nd row

im not even sure id recall bod, by the next 6 nations he will be 34 whats the point in recalling him for one season?

jennings wallace never called on again

rog might need to be dropped of the bench make one of the less adequte players man up and get better (jackson keatly madign etc )

we need a new tighthead! just as there is no depth and ross isnt exactly young

we may have a bad patch if we cut lots out but better to cut out old wood than let it rot

 

[big ginger 8]

Meant it as it isn't an excuse never said people are using it. My point is simply on BOD - we now know Earls is International class but at 11/14, McFadden isn't International class centre, O'Malley is untested and simply we can't execute the right gameplan and maybe in Green we are overhyped.

Thats a bit harsh especially since I think he's never at least started an international match in his actual position inside centre and of course O'Malley's unproven he hasn't had a chance to prove himself. Some of us do and and some of us don't overrate us I know many who think are national team are terrible and the bookies have us behind a brand new English team there's a middle that nobodies at.

 

[munstermuffin]

Thats a bit harsh especially since I think he's never at least started an international match in his actual position inside centre and of course O'Malley's unproven he hasn't had a chance to prove himself. Some of us do and and some of us don't overrate us I know many who think are national team are terrible and the bookies have us behind a brand new English team there's a middle that nobodies at.

Just an opinion having seen him at Leinster too I don't think he is international class but also I don't think we have international class.
And I'm not putting England (who are bad) as a benchmark but base it like at HEC level - You have to be consistent and we are not consistent and haven't been (with the exclusion of Grand Slam '09) we haven't had great consistent. We might compete or show well in 1 game against a powerhouse ie Aus/Nz but then we struggle the next week

 

[dullonien]

If the lasp that everyone who is referring to was the best try I think everyone should watch it again. Phase beforehand, both Priestland and Cuthburt were screaming for support as there was a 4 on 2 over lap. Ireland recycled quickly. Priestland missed the tackle, leaving Cuthburt dealing with a 2 on 1, in which he could do very little. He did come up early once previous to this aswell but nothing drastic.

Other than that he had a nice clearance kick out of hand, a couple of tackles and did look to get on the ball.

I'd keep him in again for Scotland, they will kick and having two giants either side will be useful. Dropping him now would be a mistake.

Not necessarily. Cuthbert simply had to follow Priestland in, as Jonathan Davies said in the studio after. Once one player goes (rightly or wrongly), everyone else has to follow him. If Cuthbert had, he could have taken Bowe out before any damage was done. Of course it's easy to say this with hindsight, but most wingers would have at least attempted to put pressure on Bowe, instead Cuthbert was left in no-man's land, not really able to do anything to stop the try. It's a small mistake, but at international level, small mistakes cost you try's and games.

However I agree with you that it would be a mistake to drop him now. Being replaced at half time because of one defensive lapse was a little harsh I thought, but it worked I suppose. Dropping him altogether for the Scotland match may impact his confidence too much. I don't think he'll be tested as much against Scotland, and he'll get more opportunities with ball in hand. This also means we can keep Halfpenny at fullback where he's best.

 

[Peat]

Fair enough about the reliability noticed it after posting. Just because everyone else is doing something doesn't mean it's right (almost like 1984 just because one man thinks differently does that make him insane different circumstances though obviously.) as long as we're smart and "swift of thought and deed" (jeez thats a weird thing to say) we can do well. No point arguing about it now I guess. May as well wait till closer to the time...like tomorrow.[/COLOR]

Yeah, but I'm bored now.

You are correct that the assent of nigh everyone doesn't make a thing right, but it does make it worthwhile to consider whether they might be. Even Australia, who have some of the most talented, quickest backs around, decided you need a big brute in there somewhere.

In attack, without the option of someone who can just straighten and cause mayhem, defending becomes a lot easier. You have to be phenomenal to get by without it as an attacking team. In defence - the small man has far less room for mistakes and sooner or later will make one. A costly one. A lot's been said about the defence of McFadden, Earls, D'Arcy and so on - they're great tacklers. They have to be. But sooner or later mistakes come. Even when they don't, they give up more yards when needed. Only O'Driscoll, who is a freak of nature, doesn't.

Ireland could play with all small people, but it would take a dramatic upturn in handling and tactics - and speed too I think. You have to get it all right all the time. It is far, far more sensible to play the big men if you've got them.

Happily for Ireland, they've got a lot of big back prospects coming through. Somewhere in the ranks of Cave, Griffin, Macken, McSharry, Farrell, Spence, to name six Irish players with international potential who are 15stone+ (or will be once they've filled out) are the players they need. But I think the Irish backline is going to continue to have issues until some of them come on line.

Also, until they do, I think Ireland need to keep playing Trimble/non-wussy Bowe, simply to provide some balance. And get them to cut in more on attack.

 

[Draggs]

Not necessarily. Cuthbert simply had to follow Priestland in, as Jonathan Davies said in the studio after. Once one player goes (rightly or wrongly), everyone else has to follow him. If Cuthbert had, he could have taken Bowe out before any damage was done. Of course it's easy to say this with hindsight, but most wingers would have at least attempted to put pressure on Bowe, instead Cuthbert was left in no-man's land, not really able to do anything to stop the try. It's a small mistake, but at international level, small mistakes cost you try's and games.

However I agree with you that it would be a mistake to drop him now. Being replaced at half time because of one defensive lapse was a little harsh I thought, but it worked I suppose. Dropping him altogether for the Scotland match may impact his confidence too much. I don't think he'll be tested as much against Scotland, and he'll get more opportunities with ball in hand. This also means we can keep Halfpenny at fullback where he's best.

Yep, I'd potentially keep the same backline, perhaps Beck or Henson for Roberts.
Cuthbert is still our best option on the wing and will learn from this. Perhaps we should put Byrne at FB just to boost our mass.

 

[Eirian]

Epic performance by Wales today.

The Ireland side did not play badly at all, but still didn't have enough for what was supposedly a somewhat weakened Welsh side. The boys who stepped in all played their part, and I have never before felt so confident in our strength in depth. An injury crisis is not something that I fear anymore, since it just gives other people a chance. There is so much competition in the squad, they are really driving each other forward.

On the downside, today was not without the kind of problems that normally let us down. Kicking and Discipline. Bradley Davies - you donkey. Red card was a no brainer. Citing a certainty. Into fifth choice second rows is not ideal. I would bring Ryan and give Tipuric a start who played better than Warburton today. I like how Tipuric has taken to wearing a bright blue skull cap - just to make his work rate obvious to everyone - hah! He's certainly not wanting to hide himself from the action.

Ireland played well, but have to ask yourself what the hell is Kidney thinking? It is time to bring in some fresh faces. Only thing I can think of is he was hoping to give the old guard one last chance at going out with a hurrah. Well, that's over now so maybe he'll overhaul things?

Other Comments on todays match:
Gill has put himself well ahead of P.James now imo, who I have never really rated.
Tipuric deserves a place somewhere, but where when everyone's fully fit? And Ryan Jones also?
Halfpenny should take over kicking duties, full time.
Bradley Davies - had he had not done the fugging ridiculous tackle would have played himself into the 1st XV too.

 

[TVH11]

Well that was indeed the Climax to the opening 6 nations Weekend I was looking forward to. Its been a while brewing, but my exitement was fulfilled with a a weekend that concluded with a hugely contested encounter (possibly heightened with the help of good old Alcohol).

With the clock hitting 65/66 mins and the inclusion of ROG and Davies' Dissmissal (in fairness should have been a red) I thought The Irish were gonna kick the corners and take the drops at goal once presented with the oppertunity - but how I was wrong. My heart was firmly within my throat as the minutes counted down towards that final moments. A Great penalty kick to win the game (not the hardest, but the pressure was immense). Congratulations to our boys for a cracking victory, and comiserations to the Irish, immense game and either side could have won it.

I must applaud Tupuric's Contribution to the second half. Its nice to see that the "dirty" work did not go unnoticed with so many of us commenting positively about his performance (I did indeed Turtle Head when BBC announced Warburton would not be coming back out for second half. Forwards were very good, apart from the ****ly line-out (but in saying that when have we ever had a strong/consistent lineout).

Personally I'd like to see the same side run out next week at the Millennium Stadium to create some consistent unity within the squad (obviously dependant on injuries and suspensions etc).

Looks like Davies has been cited by the sounds of things. Rightfully so, to do a tackle as his with ball in hand is one thing - but to do it off the ball is ludicrous! As someone else pointed out, seems those Blues Boys seem to be practicing their "Tip Tackles"... Will be interesting to see how much of a ban he receives....

Also loved Jiffy's statement regarding Wales' "confidence" towards the Tournament - "Whats new, Its the same every year".

1 Game at a Time I say. I will happily allow Dan Parks to kick poorly to our back 3 next week, cannot wait to be part of that crowd

 

[djames6]

Nobody has mentioned that the reason Bradley lost his head was because of Ryan's illegal cheap shot on Adam Jones. Adam suffered the same cheap shot on the Lions tour and fractured a bone, that day the Springbock player was cited and suspended for a couple of weeks. Ryan should be cited.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

Nobody has mentioned that the reason Bradley lost his head was because of Ryan's illegal cheap shot on Adam Jones. Adam suffered the same cheap shot on the Lions tour and fractured a bone, that day the Springbock player was cited and suspended for a couple of weeks. Ryan should be cited.

This is absolute garbage.

 

[Peat]

Nobody has mentioned that the reason Bradley lost his head was because of Ryan's illegal cheap shot on Adam Jones. Adam suffered the same cheap shot on the Lions tour and fractured a bone, that day the Springbock player was cited and suspended for a couple of weeks. Ryan should be cited.

Completely irrelevant. You don't do that. If he gets anything less than twelve weeks I'd be angry.

Having watched it back a few times, there might be something to what you say in isolation, but it is still completely utterly irrelevant. There is no excuse or mitigation to be made.

 

[Groundhog]

Yeah it was a completely dreadful bit of refereeing, Both Bradley getting a yellow and Ferris. That said Wales deserved to win, I'm just ****** off about the circumstances